D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[Vaalingrade]

Psionics is another one of those things in D&D where people either see the issue and want to fix it or don't see an issue and actively go out of their way to obstruct fixing it because adding something optional to the game is hurting them in some ephemeral way.

 

[Azzy]

That bridge seems well crossed in 5e, and, honestly all previous versions. Psionics become just thematically different “spells” with not much space to be unique when regular spells intrude all over that area. So I don’t see how you append it to 5e without taking away a bunch of stuff from casters, which, would make total sense in a setting book introducing Psionics characters.

I mean, the thematic "difference" between divine magic and arcane magic is similarly thin, but we don't have threads going off on that.

 

[Azzy]

And now make it for the Dmguild, so I can throw some money at you

If I had the time and motivation, I would be a DMsGuild staple.

This is exactly what I want from a psion: crystals, ectoplasm, emo-esoterism and a good dose of Mythos fluff on the side.

I'm pretty sure I could take the psion from 4e and use it nearly as-is for 5e. There's a lack of forced movement and pupeteering in 5e, that could be the niche of the psion.

True.

 

[Smackpixi]

Obviously, in past use, Psionics do a bunch more than change minds, but all that is to me just fluff spells, like it’s all fluff when target takes 1d10 damage be it frost or fire if there’s no resistance. And 1d10 fire damage coming from a casters fingers or mind is all the same to me. Rules don’t matter at that point, you theme it how you like, my firebolts emanate from the targets soul, awesome, love it, still 1d10 fire damage.

So, for me, that’s why I’d need to segregate effects it make it matter.

 

[dave2008]

They’re just different spells. They’re spells, but from a different source and maybe a lil weird, but not really that special. Near as I can tell. I am sure I’m missing something because every time Dark Sun comes up there’s a grip ton of hand wringing about getting Psionics right. It just seems like spells to me. Spells with a different but not much different rule system. Sorcerer, but with unique spells. I don’t get why it’s a big deal and why it’s not just a different spell list. Help me understand. Or confirm, it’s just spells With a new name.

I agree with you completely. However, I also understand that some people want a completely different mechanic. They want psionics to not only be different in name (not spells), but different mechanically. I don't see the need for either of those. IMO psionics is clearly magical to me. But some people just don't want to admit it.

 

[Smackpixi]

I mean, the thematic "difference" between divine magic and arcane magic is similarly thin, but we don't have threads going off on that.

Agree, but we should, there should be much more separation. There should be much more uniqueness. Frankly, wizards and clerics shouldn’t share ANY spells.

 

[Dausuul]

Personally, I dislike D&D's decision to use the same mechanical model for all types of magic. I would love to see more diverse mechanics, not just for psionics but for sorcery, wizardry, divine magic, and others. I enjoy roleplaying, but I also like engaging with mechanics for their own sake; I don't regard them as disposable and interchangeable. Class mechanics should evoke the flavor of that class.

On most types of magic, D&D tradition is against me, going back to 1E*. I'm resigned to that, but psionics and warlockry are the exceptions. I don't want either one to be subsumed into the standard "full caster" model.

Now, this doesn't mean that psionics can't use spells. Warlocks use spells, and they are quite distinct from other casters. But warlocks also present a number of balance headaches precisely because they use spells too much; many of the busted warlock/X builds are enabled by the fact that eldritch blast is a spell instead of a class ability, and warlock spell slots can be used to fuel Smite and Font of Magic.

I want psionics to explore a different mechanical space. If it can do that and still use spells, fine. But I suspect it would be better served with bespoke mechanics. IMO, the best model for psionics would focus on at-will powers; plus a pool of points for boosting those powers, metamagic style, which refreshes on a long rest. Your psi abilities are innate to you, you can't run out of powers any more than the fighter runs out of sword swings; but you can only "overcharge" so much before you get tired.

But that's just my take. I'm entirely open to alternatives. Just don't make the psion another full caster with the usual progression of spell slots.

*Or 3E, for sorcerers.

 

[Minigiant]

If by one, Minigiant, you mean Dying Earth, I can think of one other fantasy series that uses spell slots; Roger Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber. In the second series, Merlin explicitly has to prepare spells in advance for later use.

Preparing spells and Using slots are no one and the same.

You can prepare spells in a points, cooldown, roll,stress, mana, or recharge system.

Slots in the "My wizard has 4/3/2 slots at this level" only matches one series.

 

[Staffan]

I would prefer a non-spell-based psionics system.

Spells are discrete things. You cast fireball, and you get a 20-foot-radius ball of fire somewhere far away doing X amount of damage. You cast haste, and the target moves faster and can do more stuff. It is trivial to create a character who can do both of these things.

Psionics, at least to me, lean more on sci-fi and superhero tropes. In those, it is more common to have one (or rarely multiple) core power(s) that can be expressed in different ways. Xavier is a telepath. He can communicate telepathically, read minds, create mental blasts, create mental illusions, project astrally, and use his telepathy in a number of other ways. In the OG Marvel RPG, this was expressed as having the Telepathy power and a number of "Power stunts" based on that power. But he can't move things with his mind, or see the future, or walk through walls, or heal his legs.

My preference would be for a psionics system that used that as a core idea. The closest was 2e, where psionicists started out with a single discipline (telepathy, clairsentience, psychoportation, psychokinesis, or psychometabolism – I don't recall if you could take metapsionics as a primary discipline, but it would likely not have been a good idea even if you could). Even then you could branch out, but one discipline would always be primary.

Now, 2e psionics were far from perfect. The telepathy powers were too punishing for non-psionics, and the system was mostly too flat (1st level psychoporters could have, and probably would have, Teleport as a power – far shorter range than the spell, but still). But deep down, it's what I think of as being "right" for D&D psionics. Perhaps because that's where I started, but also because of this approach of powers being different expressions of a core discipline.

 

[Micah Sweet]

First of all, psionics in 1e, 2e and 3e all used a variant of the power point system, so it has a longer history of being different than of being the same.

Secondly, we need to remove WotC from the equation here. The current designers of the game are so dedicated to making and keeping the game as simple as possible so they can chase that new player high that there is no way they will add an additional subsystem for psionics at this point (not even for Dark Sun). Official rules for "psionics are different " are not coming.

You need to find a third party system you like, or homebrew your own, and move on from there. Anything else is dangerously wishful thinking.