D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[Maxperson]

1) that a certain sourcebook was in use in the campaign.
2) that "scaled ones", which is not a type or subtype of creatures in 3.x is being applied to any creatures, let alone kobolds in the campaign.
3) that a method of acquiring the special ability of a monster is allowed in the game (I think originally Pun-Pun was "achieved" by using a Psion with a Feat that allowed you to assume a supernatural ability when polymorphing).
4) that the player has sufficient knowledge to transform into a Sarrukh, a practically extinct ancient race that most players would never encounter even IN a Forgotten Realms campaign.
5) alternately, that a DM is perfectly fine with someone making a Kobold Paladin with the specific goal of falling to gain a Wish for a Candle of Invocation from Pazuzu (knowledge of Sarrukh's is still required).

It also required that the DM allow a 9th level spell to be more powerful than a god, which is well beyond the power level of any 9th level spell. Pun-Pun failed outside of a white room.

 

[Yaarel]

I wish psionics would stop reinventing the wheel. If 5e mechanics already has a wheel that is moving in the appropriate direction at the appropriate speed, then use that wheel!

Stop creating crappy mechanics for no other reason than to invent new crappy mechanics.

 

[Maxperson]

5e spell points in the DMG are less practicable. To make 3e fullcaster Psion work, would need to make the 5e spell points work well first.

On the other hand, the 5e spontaneous spell slots are excellent, and I like 5e slots better than 3e power points. So I am comfortable with a 5e fullcaster Psion using normal 5e spell slots.

Yeah. The power points system would need to be a different one built specifically for psions. Not the spell point option from the DMG.

 

[Yaarel]

Yeah. The power points system would need to be a different one built specifically for psions. Not the spell point option from the DMG.

The Wizard too needs a point system that works, in a way that is user friendly and consistently balanced. The Psion that uses normal spell slots can opt in to use the same point system that the Wizard uses.

Likewise, the Warlock can exchange its per-rest slots for the eqivalent amount of spell points.

But only if the spell points work well in the first place.

It needs to be a "normal" spell point system that all caster classes can use, to ensure consistent balance between classes, especially at the highest levels

 

[Maxperson]

The Wizard too needs a point system that works, in a way that is user friendly and condistently balanced. The Psion that uses normal spell slots can opt in to use the same point system that the Wizard uses.

I'd prefer to see the 3e psionics come back. I loved that you could take the charm ability, and then pick and choose by spending power points who it worked on.

Psionic Charm

Initial cost: 1 power point
Additional cost: 2 power points to be able to affect animals, fey, giant, magical beasts or monstrous humanoids
Additional cost: 4 power points to be able to affect aberrations, dragons, elementals or outsiders.
Additional cost: 4 power points to increase the duration to 1 day per level.
For every additional 2 power points spent, the DC went up by 1.

Now, that's the 3e version, so those numbers and effects wouldn't match up in 5e, but I think a toned down version could work.

 

[Yaarel]

I'd prefer to see the 3e psionics come back. I loved that you could take the charm ability, and then pick and choose by spending power points who it worked on.

Psionic Charm

Initial cost: 1 power point
Additional cost: 2 power points to be able to affect animals, fey, giant, magical beasts or monstrous humanoids
Additional cost: 4 power points to be able to affect aberrations, dragons, elementals or outsiders.
Additional cost: 4 power points to increase the duration to 1 day per level.
For every additional 2 power points spent, the DC went up by 1.

Now, that's the 3e version, so those numbers and effects wouldn't match up in 5e, but I think a toned down version could work.

I love the 3e Psion.

The design of the 3e Psion is intentionally to offer a real alternative to vancian spell preparation. The psionic "powers" are normal spells, slot levels 1 to 9, but with technobabble alias names. Its "augmentation" is a "heightened" spell using a higher level slot.

The 3e Psion is a better 3e Wizard, with more balance and more flexibility.

For 5e too, whatever spell point system works for the Psion, it needs to work for the Wizard, Warlock, and other casters too. The spell points must be designed with these core caster classes in mind, to ensure that the spell point system fits seemlessly as a "normal" part of the 5e gaming engine.

 

[Maxperson]

I love the 3e Psion.

The design of the 3e Psion is intentionally to offer a real alternative to vancian spell preparation. The psionic "powers" are normal spells, slot levels 1 to 9, but with technobabble alias names. Its "augmentation" was a "heightened" spell.

Augmentation was very different than a spell heightened by metamagic. All heightened did was raise the spell level, which affected DCs and things dependent on spell level, like Globe of Invulnerability.

Augmentation, as I showed, was very different. It could change duration completely, raise DCs, and affect which creatures could be affected by the charm. No metamagic ability could do those things.

The 3e Psion is a better 3e Wizard, with more balance and more flexibility.

Agreed.

For 5e too, whatever spell point system works for the Psion, it needs to work for the Wizard, Warlock, and other casters too. The spell points must be designed with these core caster classes in mind, to ensure that the spell point system fits seemlessly as a "normal" part of the 5e gaming engine.

I don't agree with this at all, though. Warlocks have a unique system for their magic. There's no good reason that psions could not have a unique spell point system.

 

[cbwjm]

I feel like this is an argument that is rehashed every month or two. Basically it boils down to:

• Some want it to be exactly like spellcasting with spell slots and things.
• Others want it to be a unique system to better capture what they consider is the feel of psionics.

I'm in the latter camp, I don't want my masters of the mind to have to cast a spell and there's something about assigning spell levels that just feels wrong for psionics, it was a major part of why I wasn't a fan of 3e psionics.

Oh and there's probably another group which:

• Doesn't want psionics in their fantasy game.

 

[Yaarel]

Augmentation was very different than a spell heightened by metamagic. All heightened did was raise the spell level, which affected DCs and things dependent on spell level, like Globe of Invulnerability.

Augmentation, as I showed, was very different. It could change duration completely, raise DCs, and affect which creatures could be affected by the charm. No metamagic ability could do those things.

Agreed.

Augmentation is heightening that is balanced. When 5e requires a higher level slot for Fireball to deal more damage, it has the augmentation cost in mind.

I don't agree with this at all, though. Warlocks have a unique system for their magic. There's no good reason that psions could not have a unique spell point system.

The Warlock already has incompatibility issues with how its slots cant combine with the spell slots of other caster classes. And so on.

The more a mechanic separates from the gaming engine, the more the gaming engine shuts it out and fails to support it.

The biggest problem of the Monk too is ... weird mechanics.

 

[Yaarel]

I feel like this is an argument that is rehashed every month or two. Basically it boils down to:

• Some want it to be exactly like spellcasting with spell slots and things.
• Others want it to be a unique system to better capture what they consider is the feel of psionics.

I'm in the latter camp, I don't want my masters of the mind to have to cast a spell and there's something about assigning spell levels that just feels wrong for psionics, it was a major part of why I wasn't a fan of 3e psionics.

That is why 5e needs two psionic classes.

The Psion is exactly like a full spell caster.

The other psionic class can be more experimental ... and we will see if its weird mechanics end up failing again.