D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[Yaarel]

One spell that I want to see is a cantrip that does real telekinesis, not a floating hand.

Let the cantrip move unattended objects and willing creatures within Tiny size. And spend slots to increase the size of the effect.

 

[cbwjm]

Wizards aren't a problem.
However they are the center of the WOTC universe.
I mean sorcerer have few exclusive spells but even if I were 2 shots of tequila down I can think of 2 exclusive spells for each Sorcerer origin, Warlock Pact, and Psion discipline.
Why do Wizards have Dragon's Breath?

Seriously "I can do everything but heal"wizard is the D&D trope I hate the most. Half the fun of spellcasters is the stuff you can't do, stuff you can't control, stuff you'd be overpowered in, and stuff that was forbidden.

I know 5e is the edition for not taking things away, but I liked specialist wizards having prohibited schools. Even a version where it took a couple of prepared choices like in pathfinder to prep a prohibited school would have been good. Mind you, I also think that sorcerer and warlock could have been folded into the same class as wizard with choices determining what type of arcane caster you are. I'm sure that would annoy a lot of people who like any of those 3 classes though... same with druid and cleric actually, they could have probably been the same class, Channel Divinity could have been used for a druids wild shape.

 

[Maxperson]

One spell that I want to see is a cantrip that does real telekinesis, not a floating hand.

Let the cantrip move unattended objects and willing creatures within Tiny size, for unattended objects and willing targets. And spend slots to increase the size of the effect.

Huh! Did that change with 4e? In 3e it was just a simple telekinesis spell.

 

[cbwjm]

One spell that I want to see is a cantrip that does real telekinesis, not a floating hand.

Let the cantrip move unattended objects and willing creatures within Tiny size, for unattended objects and willing targets. And spend slots to increase the size of the effect.

That would be cool, they do make that distinction with the gith race and the telekinetic feat so the designers are definitely thinking along the same lines there with it being an invisible force.

 

[Minigiant]

Almost all of the 3e psionic powers are already 5e spells.

It is simple to design a 5e Psion, and add a handful of flavorful spells.

But no one will spend money to buy a wonky spell point wizard with a nerfed spell list and 5 new spells.

That's the problem. To do the 3e psion and make i not boring or unbalanced, you will need 25+pages of new spells.

 

[Yaarel]

I know 5e is the edition for not taking things away, but I liked specialist wizards having prohibited schools. Even a version where it took a couple of prepared choices like in pathfinder to prep a prohibited school would have been good. Mind you, I also think that sorcerer and warlock could have been folded into the same class as wizard with choices determining what type of arcane caster you are. I'm sure that would annoy a lot of people who like any of those 3 classes though... same with druid and cleric actually, they could have probably been the same class, Channel Divinity could have been used for a druids wild shape.

It works well to organize every spell in D&D into themes and subthemes. (It resembles Cleric domains but the taxonomy is more thuro.) Then each character concept can choose about three subthemes from the same or different themes, depending on class.

A Wizard might pick Enchantment (Mind), Earth-Fire (Elemental), and Divination (Spirit), for a Pyromancer concept.

Each subtheme has its own spell list.

 

[Yaarel]

Psionics are one of the areas that I've always thought would fit the at-will/encounter model from late 4e better than many other classes.

Unfortunately psionics in 4e were the class they decided to muck with the formula for by adding points into the mix, but a 5e version of that approach would be interesting to see.

I feel similar. I was so disappointed when 4e decided to ruin the psionic classes with fringe mechanics, when the standard 4e mechanics were already excellent for them.

For 4e in 5e, I am looking at the Warlock spell mechanics. It has powerful at-wills and encounters. It has features that can modify the at-wills and the encounters. It is a full caster that can cast the highest slot spells.

All of this feels appropriate as the chassis for the Psion class.

Where the Wizard, Bard, Cleric, Druid, and Sorcerer all use the same spell chassis, to have the Warlock and Psion use the same spell chassis is probably weird enough.

The Warlock has known issues, and I dont want the Psion to inherit those problems. Also because the designers seem to be moving away from a per short rest schedule and toward a proficiency bonus times per day schedule, it is unclear what will happen to the Warlock encounter powers.

In any case, the Warlock is popular, well-tested, and enjoys designer support. What works for the Warlock might work for the Psion too.

 

[Hussar]

The problem is like I said.

If you do Psionics as Spells and make a psionic base class, said class would feel incomplete without a bunch of new spells that display the unique capabilities of the class. 5e's super friendly spellcasting is very much saved by it's slow official publishing. A new full caster could easily dump a mess of new spells.

Stop here. Back up a second. What new spells and what unique capabilities? I mean specifically. What effects do you see a psionic character doing that doesn't emulate an existing spell?

However if you suddenly add 12 to 20 new spells to the game you have to contend with Wizard of the Coast's inability to give at least half of those new spells to the wizard.

Giving wizards 6-10 new spells that vastly brought in its capabilities in ways that are not simply replications of things it could do before is a major amount of power creep. The new psychic spells in Tasha's was only minor power creep because there were so few. However giving the wizard access to more intelligent saving throws is pretty big. Now what happens when you give the wizard intelligence and charisma saving throws spells that have huge effects on top of what already has?

"I have a drafts for Schism, Ectoplasmic Lash, Mind Prone, and Object Reading"
"Here me out. What if those were wizard spells? That one is an Enchantmemt spell anyways. And let's create a Cerebromancer subclass. "

6 months later psionics is banned at every no Dark Sun table. I mean we see the ease of Warlock dipping. I can only imagine what a spellcaster focused on telepathy, telekinesis, precognition, object reading, and/or astral projection can do.

I mean we are kinda lucky the base sorcerer is kinda meh.

Schism=Clone
Ectoplasmic Lash=Hexblade Never minding that this isn't even a D&D thing.
MInd Probe(I assume that's what you meant, not mind prone) = Detect thoughts does everything this power does
Object Reading - Whoopee? Yet another information gathering spell? Let's see, divination would do this as well as a number of other spells.

Again, you keep talking about this but, as soon as any specifics are raised, it becomes very, very clear that spells will already do everything you want. Why do I need twenty new spells? They're already right there in the PHB. I didn't even have to go outside of the PHB to do everything you wanted here.

 

[James Gasik]

Schism is more like Quicken spell or haste for spellcasters than Clone. Just to clarify.

And no, technically, the game doesn't need new spells to emulate Psionics. It would be nice to have spells with flavor more evocative of Psionics, but not necessary.

However, while we don't need 20 spells, you can guarantee WotC will publish 20 new spells the next chance they get, Psionics or no Psionics.

 

[Minigiant]

Stop here. Back up a second. What new spells and what unique capabilities? I mean specifically. What effects do you see a psionic character doing that doesn't emulate an existing spell?

More advanced or lower cost versions of the traditional mind powers.

A telepathic effect that snatches a memory or deep thought then project an image to charm, frighten, enrage, or harm the target.
A telekinetic effect that grabs a target and slams the target into obstacles or foes
An object reading effect to read the object's owners current thoughts or last thoughts when holding the item.
A creative effect to create an corrosive tentacle, venomous maw, hardened claw, or fiery eye out of ectoplasm or shards.

Or one of the 1e. 2e 3e or 4e stuff that isn't in 5e.

We wont get Psionics as Spells from WOTCs without 12-25 new spells.