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Shadow of the Demon Lord - your analysis?

Nah, that's the point. It's a great game, it's just not that successful because it's not different enough from D&D.

I guess the question is why it doesn't become a semi-successful Palladium-like also-ran.
It's just not the right time for a D&D alternative to break big right now. D&D right now is more than a game system - it's a fanbase. People want to be playing D&D because it's the system that Critical Role plays, it's the system that other streamers play, it's the system everyone is posting memes about etc.

It makes it harder for alternative games in broadly the same space such as SotDL or 13th Age (both to my mind much better games) to find breathing room. It's possible that may change at some point, it has at various times in the past, but right now there's just an awful lot of fan loyalty to D&D.
 

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BrokenTwin

Biological Disaster
But if I may gush for a bit:

The boon/bane system is just superior to advantage/disadvantage in every way. The swing is smaller, which may or may not be a feature for you, but the way they stack makes it so much easier to modify the difficult of things based on what the players are doing.

The paths system is essentially mandatory multiclassing, but it mostly means that no matter what style of character you're playing, you'll get to make meaningful progression decisions as you grow in power.

Combat options that are easy to use for any character, but martials can make the best use of, means that even if you make the simpliest character possible, you still have more options than just "I attack".

Professions instead of skills are much more vague and open ended, and yet still manage to make characters feel more like people with histories than stat blocks.

Four attributes instead of six. Strength and Constitution are folded into one stat, Charisma is just nuked from orbit, and instead of Wisdom there's Willpower, which is a lot easier to differentiate from Intelligence.

Magic is learned via traditions, which means casters have to specialize outside of specific generalist paths. Each tradition is either cast via Intelligence or Willpower, and is clearly stated upfront.

Numbers are a flatter all around, which means that things stay dangerous for longer. Fewer numbers in general also makes it a lot easier to run and teach.
 

aramis erak

Legend
The boon/bane system is just superior to advantage/disadvantage in every way. The swing is smaller, which may or may not be a feature for you, but the way they stack makes it so much easier to modify the difficult of things based on what the players are doing.
I'm curious to have that expounded upon...

Noting that your gushing included several items I don't care for, it's not selling me on it, but I am curious about that one element. (4 stats = Strike 1. Professions instead of skills, strike 2. No social stat, strike 3. Flatter progression than D&D 5, if indeed that's what you meant, strike 4.)
 

BrokenTwin

Biological Disaster
Boons and banes are d6s that are rolled with your d20 to Attack and Challenge rolls. They stack and cancel each other, but you only ever take the highest value. Example:

Say you're a warrior who makes attack rolls with weapons with two boons. So with a basic attack roll, you're rolling 1d20 + 2 boons. Ignoring attribute bonus for a moment, if you rolled (d20 = 10, d6 = 2, d6 = 4), you'd take the highest d6 (4) and add it to your d20 roll (total 14). Banes and boons cancel each other out on a 1-to-1 basis, so you don't have the weird situation that comes up a lot in D&D 5E where once you have one source of advantage, any further advantage is useless. And since the swing isn't as large, any situational modifiers can be handled by the GM adding boons or banes instead of flat bonuses or worthless additional advantage.
Weapon attacks can be modified by adding banes to your attack roll (lunging attack, just add a bane to the roll), which means that any character can attempt different types of martial attacks, but martially focused characters will have the spare boons available to still have a strong chance of success.

Also, while technically there is no strictly social attribute, the social stuff is handled between Intelligence (bluffing, logical appeals) and Willpower (charm, emotional appeals), and any relevant professions you happen to have (is your character a baker and talking to an NPC baker? That's probably worth a boon to the roll).

Sorry if that reads a bit confusing, I promise it feels very simple in play.

Edit: Also, as previously noted, SotDL is Horror Fantasy, not Heroic Fantasy. While it can do heroic fantasy ala D&D 5E, that's not its designed purpose. Which I can only assume is partially the reason for the flatter progression.
 
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cavetroll

Explorer
Boons and banes are d6s that are rolled with your d20 to Attack and Challenge rolls. They stack and cancel each other, but you only ever take the highest value. Example:

Say you're a warrior who makes attack rolls with weapons with two boons. So with a basic attack roll, you're rolling 1d20 + 2 boons. Ignoring attribute bonus for a moment, if you rolled (d20 = 10, d6 = 2, d6 = 4), you'd take the highest d6 (4) and add it to your d20 roll (total 14).
If you need to roll a 15, there is a 30% chance of success
if you have one boon its a 47% chance of success.
but if you have three boons you only have a 55% chance of success

Do you think if you have three boons, its not really adding enough compared to one boon?
 

BrokenTwin

Biological Disaster
If you need to roll a 15, there is a 30% chance of success
if you have one boon its a 47% chance of success.
but if you have three boons you only have a 55% chance of success

Do you think if you have three boons, its not really adding enough compared to one boon?
Once you get in the range of 3+ boons, it's much more efficient to burn the extra boons by using the attack options. If you have three boons on your attack, it doesn't effect your chances of success much to add a shove, lunge, or defensive modifier to your weapon attack. Two is generally your ideal number of boons, which usually requires some investment in your paths or spells to reliably achieve.

Edit: It also enables you to be reliable in more adverse environments, since you can tank the banes impacting your rolls with your extra boons.
 

Yeah, by t he standards of "every RPG but D&D", Schawlb has been successful. SotDL has a couple of third party settings written for it (including a Souls clone that I adore), is constantly being updated, and while the Discord chat is small, it's friendly and active.
What's the souls clone for SotDL? Colour me intrigued...
 

Shadow of the Demon Lord is my fantasy RPG of choice and i've been using it for near on 3 years as it does most things I want.

There's a lot of cleverness in the design and a surprising amount of depth that isn't apparent at first.

The modularity is such a great feature and a huge thing for me GMing. I actually include a large number of spellcasting opponents that i would avoid doing in 5e, and given that there are 30+ schools of magic, it's so easy to have pc magicians that are nothing alike.

I've lately been reading some suplements such as hinger in the void and the cosmology while familiar and inspired by many tropes is much more layered than forgotten realms. Many secrets within secrets.

The "Lands in..." series which explores all the major cities and nations in Rul are excellent, flavourfulland give enough hooks that you could use to run a campaign in each. The descriptions of the places, local customs and the powerful group are unique and flavourful and each one i read makes me want to run off and start a new campaign.

I think the problem it suffers is that it competes in the same genre as d&d, so it's scratching the same itch. For most people, why would they play SotDL when they could more easily find a group with 5e?
 


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