Why modern movies suck - they teach us awful lessons

[darkwillow]

I can only think of two characters in movie/TV history where this has been applied to:

The female character in Star Wars (I didn't watch as I never had much faith in Disney) and Michael Burnham of Discovery, whose character I personally disliked. Have there been anymore?
The reason I ask is because you state it is lazy criticism which implies this term has been utilised a lot.

I don't think Michael Burnham was a mary sue, plenty of flaws, even if being a criminal was a little far fetched.
The most obvious one was Captain Marvel, who is unbeatable, perfect, succeeds at everything, and is identical at the start of the movie and the end of the movie. Contrast with Thor or Irons Mans character arcs, or Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I don't think Michael Burnham was a mary sue, plenty of flaws, even if being a criminal was a little far fetched.
The most obvious one was Captain Marvel, who is unbeatable, perfect, succeeds at everything, and is identical at the start of the movie and the end of the movie. Contrast with Thor or Irons Mans character arcs, or Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor.

Err, at the start of Captain Marvel she is hobbled by self-doubt, manipulated and gaslighted by her superiors.

And of course you aren't bothered by the likes of James Bond, Indiana Jones, or Captain Kirk who are allowed to be unbeatable because they are male.

 

[Ryujin]

Err, at the start of Captain Marvel she is hobbled by self-doubt, manipulated and gaslighted by her superiors.

And of course you aren't bothered by the likes of James Bond, Indiana Jones, or Captain Kirk who are allowed to be unbeatable because they are male.

On top of that, in the comics, she was a raging alcoholic.

 

[BookTenTiger]

I don't think Michael Burnham was a mary sue, plenty of flaws, even if being a criminal was a little far fetched.
The most obvious one was Captain Marvel, who is unbeatable, perfect, succeeds at everything, and is identical at the start of the movie and the end of the movie. Contrast with Thor or Irons Mans character arcs, or Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor.

Can you think of a male blockbuster movie character who also fits that definition?

I can! But they don't get criticized (because of gender politics).

 

[J.Quondam]

I've seen it called satire and I've seen it taken at face value. My heart hopes that it was meant as satire.

According to a 2011 interview with the writer, she did it as a parody:

I really just retold the story of that quintessential Mary Sue. It was a parody. At the time, I was getting very heavily into writing parodies. In fact, for issues of Menagerie, what I did a lot was the so-called Trek primers and parodies of the episodes.

View of A conversation with Paula Smith | Transformative Works and Cultures

journal.transformativeworks.org

 

[darkwillow]

Can you think of a male blockbuster movie character who also fits that definition?

I can! But they don't get criticized (because of gender politics).

Yeah its apparent people care more politics than good movies or stories or characters.

I think the definition needs to be narrowed. Wonder Woman is not a Mary Sue, she is a fully developed, realistic character, beloved by all.
So its all in the telling.

In the new Matrix 4 Neo felt mary suish, the way he ran around blocking every bullet with a force field, that was dreadful.
John Wick however, feels right.

Shoot with your male character, I have an open mind.

 

[BookTenTiger]

Yeah its apparent people care more politics than good movies or stories or characters.

I think the definition needs to be narrowed. Wonder Woman is not a Mary Sue, she is a fully developed, realistic character, beloved by all.
So its all in the telling.

In the new Matrix 4 Neo felt mary suish, the way he ran around blocking every bullet with a force field, that was dreadful.
John Wick however, feels right.

Shoot with your male character, I have an open mind.

I think the big idea is to not use the term Mary Sue.

 

[Ryujin]

Yeah its apparent people care more politics than good movies or stories or characters.

I think the definition needs to be narrowed. Wonder Woman is not a Mary Sue, she is a fully developed, realistic character, beloved by all.
So its all in the telling.

In the new Matrix 4 Neo felt mary suish, the way he ran around blocking every bullet with a force field, that was dreadful.
John Wick however, feels right.

Shoot with your male character, I have an open mind.

Sequels are a bit of a different story. Mr. Anderson earned his stripes by dying and then being resurrected, again and again. it would only be Gary Stuish if Matrix 4 was taken completely separate from the other films. John Wick is another and very different sort of character. He is presented, fully formed, as a character who has worked to attain the levels of skill he possesses. The back story is presented as a, "You never know who the guy you're screwing with is", aka "Pineapple around and find out!" sort of story. That doesn't qualify as a Gary Stu either.

If genetic legacy wasn't a thing in Star Wars, then Rey would be a Mary Sue. The truth of her birth removes her from the category. It just took 3 (incredibly uneven) movies to get there. Shaggy from Scooby Doo might qualify. Complete stoner who can do no wrong, it seems. Always succeeds, despite himself. Bond, without any sort of character development, would certainly qualify.

Ah! I think I've got one: MacGyver.

 

[billd91]

I think the big idea is to not use the term Mary Sue.

The bigger idea is to not criticize female characters for things you let male characters skate by on.

 

[Zardnaar]

Binds had training though. It's over the top but it's kinda the genre. Bonds always been a bit tongue in check as well and get his butt handed to him a lot.

I don't think Captain bMarvel is one either. It's a superhero movie they're all kinda silly and having superpowers is part of the genre.