TSR TSR3.5 Launches IndieGogo Campaign to "Stop" WotC

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those claims are).

The IndieGoGo campaign was launched yesterday and has so far raised $675 (at the time of writing).

The action TSR seeks is a "Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership" which is a court declaration about the status of something in dispute.

TSR has launched a campaign to stop Wizards of the Coast

Become a Champion of TSR and Support TSR’s campaign against Wizards of the Coast!

TSR is taking a stand against Wizards of the Coast (“WOTC”) and its wrongful bullying of TSR, our trademarks, and its public libeling and slander of all those who helped create TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and products.

Wizards of the Coast has continually bullied TSR regarding TSR’s legally owned Trademarks. Wizards of the Coast has refused to answer all of TSR's repeated requests that they show any proof of their claims. Wizards of the Coast has the vast resources behind them and is implying to bring them to bear down on TSR.

The new TSR suffered widespread pushback when it launched, which they blamed on WotC, claiming that they were under a "coordinated assault across various channels being mounted.... by [WotC]" The company announced itself earlier this year, having acquired the TSR trademark after the previous holder accidentally let it lapse. It was run by Ernie Gygax, Justin LaNasa, and Stephen Dinehart. After several weeks of controversy, the company split into two -- Wonderfilled (Stephen Dinehart), and TSR (Ernie Gygax and Justin LaNasa).

TSR - TSR3 Blames Widespread Pushback On WotC

In an unexpected turn of events, the primary individuals behind TSR3 have claimed the pushback they've received on social media and elsewhere was orchestrated by .... D&D publisher Wizards of the Coast (a company which has thus far remained completely silent on recent events). TSR3 is run by...

www.enworld.org

The page also indicates an intention to "fight to have WotC's legacy product disclaimer removed" from older products (that's the disclaimer on the older books available on DMs Guild which indicates that those books are products of their time) by claiming that the disclaimer portrays the creators of those older products as "as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products".

TSR will also Fight to Have the WOTC Legacy Disclaimer Removed

TSR is suing WOTC for Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership . TSR will also pursue in the near future having WOTC remove the legacy content disclaimer placed on TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and other products, and retractions of any other libel and slander which alleges that racism and other heinous beliefs are incorporated into those products.

This disclaimer attempts to make a statement of fact argument, and therefore paints all of the writers, editors, artists and consumers of those products as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products. This statement by Wizards of the Coast opens the possibility for the producers and players of these "Legacy Products" to face ridicule, and face the labeling as "bigots", "racists", "misogynists", and worse Cyber & Physical Attacks!

Wizards of the Coast legacy content disclaimer.

"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end".

TSR3's Justin LaNasa spoke about the campaign in a YouTube video.

TSR - Companies & Freelancers Distance Themselves From The New TSR

The new TSR (which I refer to as TSR3 to avoid confusion) has doubled down on its stance--which has been widely condemned online--via an ongoing series of tweets and replies from its TSR Games, Giantlands, and Dungeon Hobby Museum social media accounts (possibly operated by Justin LaNasa) in an...

www.enworld.org

 

[ShadowofNarcissus]

To be fair, liking 1e, 2e, or 3e is just as much "being a follower" as liking 4e or 5e. Or GURPS.

Liking specific product lines isn't the same as being a corporate follower. I care nothing for corporations. I care about product and how corporations treat their consumers. WOTC greatly disrespected the original consumers that made them filthy rich in the first place.

 

[CleverNickName]

That's not the same thing. That's all smoke and mirrors.

If I crap all over your dinner, then say I'm sorry, or say that I actually respect your feelings, I'd be lying. WOTC disclaimers, like all disclaimers are just another lie.

I'm clearly missing something here.

A legacy content disclaimer is not an apology, and never was intended to be. And what part of the legacy content disclaimer do you think is untrue?

Spoiler: The Legacy Content disclaimer

We recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website, does not reflect the values of the Dungeon & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.

 

[ShadowofNarcissus]

I don't consider myself edgy. Controversial maybe, but not edgy. I just don't bow down before corporations like so many people seem to do these days. Corporations are in it for the money. That's completely normal, but things like D&D have a long history and rich traditions that will be cherished by geeks, nerds, and dorks for decades to come. WOTC has proven repeatedly that they don't actually care about that, which is fine. It's their company. They can run it however they want. However, that doesn't make them or their blind sychophants any better.

 

[J.Quondam]

Liking specific product lines isn't the same as being a corporate follower. I care nothing for corporations. I care about product and how corporations treat their consumers. WOTC greatly disrespected the original consumers that made them filthy rich in the first place.

I don't think grognards are the ones that made them rich. I might be misremembering, but WotC didn't become dominant at Hasbro until the last few years-- because of 5e and the younger/newer markets that came with it. That money came mostly from new, diverse blood entering the hobby, not by catering to old schoolers.

 

[ShadowofNarcissus]

I'm clearly missing something here.

A legacy content disclaimer is not an apology, and never was intended to be. And what part of the legacy content disclaimer do you think is untrue?

Spoiler: The Legacy Content disclaimer

We recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website, does not reflect the values of the Dungeon & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.

A legacy disclaimer is just a lie that implies a company respects a game's origins. You bought the lie. I don't.

 

[ShadowofNarcissus]

I don't think grognards are the ones that made them rich. I might be mistaken, but I don't believe WotC become dominant at Hasbro until the last few years-- because of 5e and the younger/newer markets that came with it. That money came mostly from new, diverse blood entering the hobby, not by catering to old schoolers.

Without grognards, there would be no D&D. It would have died out in the 70s. WOTC would have been forced to buy someone else's game and ruin it.

 

[CleverNickName]

A legacy disclaimer is just a lie that implies a company respects a game's origins. You bought the lie. I don't.

Well, you're clearly wrong about what a legacy disclaimer is and what it's for. But you're right about one thing: I think it's a good thing to have.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I don't consider myself edgy. Controversial maybe, but not edgy. I just don't bow down before corporations like so many people seem to do these days. Corporations are in it for the money. That's completely normal, but things like D&D have a long history and rich traditions that will be cherished by geeks, nerds, and dorks for decades to come. WOTC has proven repeatedly that they don't actually care about that, which is fine. It's their company. They can run it however they want. However, that doesn't make them or their blind sychophants any better.

If you think WoTC is in it for the money more than Gygax or Lorraine was (TSR era), then you have a glaring ignorance about how TSR was run back then. You keep calling WotC liars and dishonest and horrible, but do you know what is horrible?

Not paying your employees
Mass manufacturing product no one will buy because you get paid for it in advance, using that money to fund your pet projects and just to keep the lights on
Running your best talent out of the company because you don't want to pay them what they are worth
Suing anyone and everyone who put out anything remotely related to D&D, including fan pages online.

^all actions by the original TSR

The disclaimer is not a lie; it's absolutely accurate. No longer printing a version of the game from 40 years ago is not "crapping on your dinner". In that case, Gary Gygax insulted and crapped on his fans by no longer printing OD&D boxes.

I mean, come on man, do you hear yourself?

 

[J.Quondam]

Without grognards, there would be no D&D. It would have died out in the 70s. WOTC would have been forced to buy someone else's game and ruin it.

Uh huh... and? We're not talking about parallel universes. That has literally nothing to do with the success of 5e, here and now.

Also I'll be blunt:
Are you a sock puppet? You sound very familiar.

 

[ShadowofNarcissus]

If you think WoTC is in it for the money more than Gygax or Lorraine was (TSR era), then you have a glaring ignorance about how TSR was run back then. You keep calling WotC liars and dishonest and horrible, but do you know what is horrible?

Not paying your employees
Mass manufacturing product no one will buy because you get paid for it in advance, using that money to fund your pet projects and just to keep the lights on
Running your best talent out of the company because you don't want to pay them what they are worth
Suing anyone and everyone who put out anything remotely related to D&D, including fan pages online.

^all actions by the original TSR

The disclaimer is not a lie; it's absolutely accurate. No longer printing a version of the game from 40 years ago is not "crapping on your dinner". In that case, Gary Gygax insulted and crapped on his fans by no longer printing OD&D boxes.

I mean, come on man, do you hear yourself?

Gygax and Lorraine were both definitely trying to make money, but Gygax loved D&D, while Lorraine hated it and actively banned playtesting. She was just a spoiled little princess.