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D&D 5E Player angry about enemies climbing rope with Rope Trick

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Imagine a fight breaking out between rival tribes of hobgoblins. Are they going to stop and make sure anyone goes down is really dead?

I get people all the time insisting that D&D is not high magic, and that casters are rare, and that the PC's are not indicative of the setting. So if we accept this logic, then an effect like Healing Word is so rare that I can't imagine a non-adventurer expecting it.
The bolded bit is the real problem behind this whole train of thought: what is being accepted is in no way logical. Nor is it consistent even with itself, never mind anything else.

If the PCs aren't indicative of the setting then a very good argument can (and IMO should) be made that they really don't belong there.

If PCs get death saves then Hobgoblins get death saves. So should Ogres, Mind Flayers, and any other living being bigger than a turnip. That's consistent. And yes, the Hobs will still end up dying far more often than the PCs because odds are they don't have available on-the-fly healing; and that's fine too, as long as the underlying mechanics - in this case, death saves and their application - are consistent.
 

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tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
The bolded bit is the real problem behind this whole train of thought: what is being accepted is in no way logical. Nor is it consistent even with itself, never mind anything else.

If the PCs aren't indicative of the setting then a very good argument can (and IMO should) be made that they really don't belong there.

If PCs get death saves then Hobgoblins get death saves. So should Ogres, Mind Flayers, and any other living being bigger than a turnip. That's consistent. And yes, the Hobs will still end up dying far more often than the PCs because odds are they don't have available on-the-fly healing; and that's fine too, as long as the underlying mechanics - in this case, death saves and their application - are consistent.
It's also worth noting that a troll known for being difficult to kill rather than just briefly inconvenience with some wounds is dramatically less resilliant than a PC to the point that its regeneration is practically nonfunctional when encountering PC groups due to cantrips.
 

ECMO3

Hero
I get people all the time insisting that D&D is not high magic, and that casters are rare, and that the PC's are not indicative of the setting. So if we accept this logic, then an effect like Healing Word is so rare that I can't imagine a non-adventurer expecting it.

There is a difference between being rare and being unknown. A few examples:

About 0.2% of the US population are pilots but everyone can identify an airplane when they see one and a substantial minoirty can identify it specifically or tell you how to fly it (even though they can't fly it themselves).

About 1 in 100,000 people in the US play professional football but most Americans can describe the basics of football and at least half could name their local team and tell you what a touchdown is.

Few people outside the US own firearms, but every adult in the world knows what a firearm is and knows the basics of how to fire one.

I would argue these three examples are rarer than spell casters, yet virtually everyone knows about them.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
I would have no problem with monsters having death saves. Or even humanoids having healers of their own. But very few NPC or enemies seem to have these kinds of powers. So we either assume that 1) NPC's and monsters are representative of the average creatures in the setting, and the player characters are exceptional. This falls in line with PC tactics, who don't often make sure something is dead while other enemies remain threats.

Or 2) the game rules are not indicative of anything at all, and it's all just an abstraction. The reason monsters pursue different tactics than the players is just how the game is played, and the narrative should not reflect this.

I'm not saying either way is wrong. Or that some other possibility can work for others. I just feel that a DM who doesn't have monsters consistently deliver the coup de grace isn't doing anything wrong or softballing the monsters for his player's benefit- he is trying to have enemies use logical tactics. Or illogical ones, depending on the monster in question.

For my immersion, however, I do try to imagine that all the characters, player and otherwise, occupy the same world, and act accordingly. So if the enemy proves to have a healer, then yes, you could finish off fallen foes (provided you don't have someone actively attacking you who is very much alive). Or you should just prioritize killing the medic.

EDIT: ECMO3, yes, but again there is a degree. Knowing spellcasters exist and knowing what their exact capabilities are, are two different things. But from the perspective of intelligent humanoids, the first order of business may very well likely be to kill the guy brandishing a holy symbol or waving around an arcane focus.
 

ECMO3

Hero
EDIT: ECMO3, yes, but again there is a degree. Knowing spellcasters exist and knowing what their exact capabilities are, are two different things. But from the perspective of intelligent humanoids, the first order of business may very well likely be to kill the guy brandishing a holy symbol or waving around an arcane focus.
I get it. But we are talking about healing word, which after sheild is probably the second most cast spell.

To draw on the football comparison. If it is 2nd and 1 on the goaline you will expect a running play and when you see it happen you will be able to say they ran it in for a TD like you though they would. You may not be able to identify that it was a counter play, or describe the way the guard pulled to block the linebacker out of the play but you darn sure would have expected a run was coming when the ball was snapped.

When a character is down and a caster starts chanting - especially one holding a shield with a holy symbol on it - you are expecting him to bring back that downed character. You might not be able to explain that it was a Cleric of Tyr or that the spell requires no somatic components and maybe you don't even know if it was healing word or cure wounds or aid. But you darn sure know what you expect will happen ..... Biff the Barbarian is going to get back up and start swinging his greatsword again.
 




James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
It might. Why shouldn't enemies flee if they have a chance? Live to fight another day. Plus, in the case of smarter monsters, you can alert allies, gather reinforcements, and tell people about those weird spells you saw!
 


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