WarDriveWorley
Hero
I've seen more fan conversions of Birthright than I have of Ghostwalk so I think Birthright may have more of an impact. That said I enjoyed BR more than GW so that may slightly sway my search.
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D&D General A Chart of D&D Campaign Worlds (v 3.0)
- Thread starter Mercurius
- Start date
Paul Farquhar
Legend
I've never had a conversation about either outside internet forums. Never played either, I was more tempted to buy Ghostwalk but I wasn't really playing D&D at the time (we where playing FASA Star Trek).
WarDriveWorley
Hero
I miss FASA ST. BR came out about the time my friends and I were moving into a more urban style of campaign and it had a lot of elements we were looking for at the time. When GW came out we really weren't in the mood for it and neither were most of the groups that came into the store I was working at. I remember we struggled to sell the few copies we got in.
Stormonu
Legend
Horde is another one I think has been missed - I’m only aware of four products for it; the boxed set and three modules.
Is Savage Baronies/Savage Coast distinct enough to be listed separately from Mystara? What about Time of the Dragon/Taladas?
And I’m not sure if TSR actually published anything for it, but there was also M.A.R Barker’s Tekumel, which was considered an “official” D&D world for a very brief time.
Is Savage Baronies/Savage Coast distinct enough to be listed separately from Mystara? What about Time of the Dragon/Taladas?
And I’m not sure if TSR actually published anything for it, but there was also M.A.R Barker’s Tekumel, which was considered an “official” D&D world for a very brief time.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
I suppose you could say "must have more than one publication to be included". That would justify putting the 5e MtG books together.
Baron Opal II
Hero
Are you going to factor in the Living Campaigns?
Mercurius
Legend
OK, I think I’m responding to everyone. Most of them are minor bits, but I’ll leave the big one for the end as it involves some discussion and explanation.
Magic Settings (@Parmandur)
I’ll go with this, although like the sub-settings I’m denoting a grouping.
DMs Guild (@Parmandur)
I’ll look into this, although it will have to be for version 3.0.
Darken grey shades (@overgeeked)
Done - although just one shade darker.
Rokugan (@JEB)
Done. I only included what was actually published for D&D.
Diablo (@JEB)
Done.
3E Ravenloft (@JEB, @martynq)
Done (I think - I'll go over it a little more finely for 3.0). As for Masque, see my final entry below.
Birthright’s status (@Paul Farquhar, @Snarf Zagyg)
I deliberately phrased major settings as “generally across editions” – but not as a hard and fast rule. I included Birthright as a major setting because it received substantial support during 2E – about two dozen products. In a way, it should be an "intermediate" setting, but I don't want to over-complicate things. This is to differentiate it from settings like Jakandor which received only three products, or Ghostwalk which was a one-and-done.
Planes/Planescape (@Yora, @Paul Farquhar, @Jer)
Yes – agreed, but I’m not counting every book on the Planes. I did want to include when the Planes were first mentioned, because it sets the context for—is the “seed” of—Planescape. But I decided to mark that as a (star) – and made some further adjustments, like with Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms, as a “first mention or significant precursor.” That said, I do consider some of the 3E and 4E planes books as actual supplementation (light shade) because they include sections on Sigil and Planescape, even if they don’t call it “Planescape.”
I think @Jer is right, and that in a way what we call Planescape is a particular phase and approach to the planes. But I’m still using it as roughly synonymous with Sigil itself, as the primary location of Planescape (the literal hub, if you will). IOW, for the purposes of this chart, Planescape = Sigil. But I'll look again at the later stuff to make sure it has actual Sigil material.
Al-Qadim in Dragon (@WarDriveWorley)
As Snarf mentioned, it is probably best to avoid mention in Dragon as it may be impossible to research.
Tekumel (@Stormonu)
Yeah, I considered it – and it was published by TSR in 1975 as “Empire of the Petal Throne,” but as a distinctly different RPG. So I’m not including it.
More rules (@Snarf Zagyg)
This is an excellent suggestion and I’ve taken it to heart – thus the clearer Key, but will revise further when I take another pass.
Forgotten Realms begins at the Gray Box (@Snarf Zagyg)
Yes – I’ve amended this, although as with the Planes/Planescape, I’ve noted when it was first mentioned, as I think that is important in understanding the development of the setting.
Kara-Tur (@Snarf Zagyg)
This is simply an error on my part – I’ve included these.
Living Campaigns (@Baron Opal II)
Not for now, though I might consider it for a later revision.
THE BIGGER ISSUE…Sub-settings, expansions, distinct settings etc (@JEB, @Stormonu, etc)
Here’s how I did it for 2.0: it depends upon how it was first published. For the Forgotten Realms, Kara-Tur and Al-Qadim were first published as distinct settings and only later incorporated into the FR. The Horde and Maztica were considered part of the FR from the beginning.
Similarly with Taladas – it was part of Krynn from its inception, so I’m considering it as a “major expansion,” not a distinct setting.
This is also why Blackmoor has its own row – it was only subsumed by Greyhawk and Mystara later on. And, of course, regained its freedom later on.
This is also why, after thinking again upon it, I’m going to keep all the various sub-settings of Mystara within the Mystara row – they were all initially published within that setting – at least Hollow World, Savage Coast, Red Steel, etc. That said, Thunder Rift was initially meant to be setting-neutral, even though it was envisioned by the creators as part of Mystara. But I’m giving it its own line under Mystara ala Al-Qadim under the FR.
Admittedly, Hollow World and Masque of the Red Death are a bit tricky as they are both essentially distinct from the rest of the setting. But I’m going to stick with the basic idea of sub-settings: If it was initially conceived of as part of the setting, then it is subsumed in that row; if it was later added on, it gets its own row. So HW is part of Mystara, and Masque part of Ravenloft.
ADDENDUM – Other Publishers/Wheel of Time
I’ve also added Wheel of Time, even though it isn’t technically D&D but d20. Still, it is close enough that I think it deserves mention. But I might remove it again later.
As for the Other Publishers, I’ve added in a few – Wilderlands, Scarred Lands, and Iron Kingdoms – as I think they are all significant enough to warrant inclusion. Of course we could include any number of other d20/OGL settings (e.g. Freeport, Melnibone, etc), but this is meant more as a selection, and I tried to include those that had a certain degree of support and weight.
All that said, I’m still open to changing these designations, but that’s what I’m going with for v 2.0.
Magic Settings (@Parmandur)
I’ll go with this, although like the sub-settings I’m denoting a grouping.
DMs Guild (@Parmandur)
I’ll look into this, although it will have to be for version 3.0.
Darken grey shades (@overgeeked)
Done - although just one shade darker.
Rokugan (@JEB)
Done. I only included what was actually published for D&D.
Diablo (@JEB)
Done.
3E Ravenloft (@JEB, @martynq)
Done (I think - I'll go over it a little more finely for 3.0). As for Masque, see my final entry below.
Birthright’s status (@Paul Farquhar, @Snarf Zagyg)
I deliberately phrased major settings as “generally across editions” – but not as a hard and fast rule. I included Birthright as a major setting because it received substantial support during 2E – about two dozen products. In a way, it should be an "intermediate" setting, but I don't want to over-complicate things. This is to differentiate it from settings like Jakandor which received only three products, or Ghostwalk which was a one-and-done.
Planes/Planescape (@Yora, @Paul Farquhar, @Jer)
Yes – agreed, but I’m not counting every book on the Planes. I did want to include when the Planes were first mentioned, because it sets the context for—is the “seed” of—Planescape. But I decided to mark that as a (star) – and made some further adjustments, like with Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms, as a “first mention or significant precursor.” That said, I do consider some of the 3E and 4E planes books as actual supplementation (light shade) because they include sections on Sigil and Planescape, even if they don’t call it “Planescape.”
I think @Jer is right, and that in a way what we call Planescape is a particular phase and approach to the planes. But I’m still using it as roughly synonymous with Sigil itself, as the primary location of Planescape (the literal hub, if you will). IOW, for the purposes of this chart, Planescape = Sigil. But I'll look again at the later stuff to make sure it has actual Sigil material.
Al-Qadim in Dragon (@WarDriveWorley)
As Snarf mentioned, it is probably best to avoid mention in Dragon as it may be impossible to research.
Tekumel (@Stormonu)
Yeah, I considered it – and it was published by TSR in 1975 as “Empire of the Petal Throne,” but as a distinctly different RPG. So I’m not including it.
More rules (@Snarf Zagyg)
This is an excellent suggestion and I’ve taken it to heart – thus the clearer Key, but will revise further when I take another pass.
Forgotten Realms begins at the Gray Box (@Snarf Zagyg)
Yes – I’ve amended this, although as with the Planes/Planescape, I’ve noted when it was first mentioned, as I think that is important in understanding the development of the setting.
Kara-Tur (@Snarf Zagyg)
This is simply an error on my part – I’ve included these.
Living Campaigns (@Baron Opal II)
Not for now, though I might consider it for a later revision.
THE BIGGER ISSUE…Sub-settings, expansions, distinct settings etc (@JEB, @Stormonu, etc)
Here’s how I did it for 2.0: it depends upon how it was first published. For the Forgotten Realms, Kara-Tur and Al-Qadim were first published as distinct settings and only later incorporated into the FR. The Horde and Maztica were considered part of the FR from the beginning.
Similarly with Taladas – it was part of Krynn from its inception, so I’m considering it as a “major expansion,” not a distinct setting.
This is also why Blackmoor has its own row – it was only subsumed by Greyhawk and Mystara later on. And, of course, regained its freedom later on.
This is also why, after thinking again upon it, I’m going to keep all the various sub-settings of Mystara within the Mystara row – they were all initially published within that setting – at least Hollow World, Savage Coast, Red Steel, etc. That said, Thunder Rift was initially meant to be setting-neutral, even though it was envisioned by the creators as part of Mystara. But I’m giving it its own line under Mystara ala Al-Qadim under the FR.
Admittedly, Hollow World and Masque of the Red Death are a bit tricky as they are both essentially distinct from the rest of the setting. But I’m going to stick with the basic idea of sub-settings: If it was initially conceived of as part of the setting, then it is subsumed in that row; if it was later added on, it gets its own row. So HW is part of Mystara, and Masque part of Ravenloft.
ADDENDUM – Other Publishers/Wheel of Time
I’ve also added Wheel of Time, even though it isn’t technically D&D but d20. Still, it is close enough that I think it deserves mention. But I might remove it again later.
As for the Other Publishers, I’ve added in a few – Wilderlands, Scarred Lands, and Iron Kingdoms – as I think they are all significant enough to warrant inclusion. Of course we could include any number of other d20/OGL settings (e.g. Freeport, Melnibone, etc), but this is meant more as a selection, and I tried to include those that had a certain degree of support and weight.
All that said, I’m still open to changing these designations, but that’s what I’m going with for v 2.0.
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