Dr Strange 2: In the Multiverse of Madness (Spoilers)

[DeviousQuail]

Redemptive moments don't fix trauma. Redemptive moments are not a substitute for a few years with a good therapist.

Her first action after that redemptive moment was to run away and stew in isolation with a book of evil power. Good luck with that redemption.

This makes me think of Thor. He gets trauma piled on and doesn't deal with it even after he does everything else right to defeat the bad guys. He spirals because of it and we only really see him coming out of that after Endgame and in the trailer for Love and Thunder.

 

[Umbran]

This makes me think of Thor. He gets trauma piled on and doesn't deal with it even after he does everything else right to defeat the bad guys. He spirals because of it and we only really see him coming out of that after Endgame and in the trailer for Love and Thunder.

Awesome point. The MCU is a number of studies in trauma and its various effects. We can add Iron Man in there too...

But, let's talk Thor for a moment. Aside form how they are different people, what's a major difference between Thor and Wanda? Support structure.

Thor gets to continue to hang around with people who mostly like and respect him, like Korg and the other Asgardians who still accept him. Thor has people come to him for help because they respect him. Thor gets to talk to his mother. Thor gets to have Mjollnir tell him that he is still worthy, and even his friends are worthy!

Wanda had her brother, but he's only one person, and he dies. She had Vision, but he dies, twice, once at her own hand. She ends up isolated. When she comes back from the Snap... as far as we know not a soul in the world reaches out to her. Totally. Alone.

No stuff she doesn't deal with her trauma well.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yeah, I thought that was odd. The presentation at the end of WandaVision seems to be that she realized that what she did was wrong and was on a redemptive path. But, the DarkHold has been shown to be extremely corrupting. Most but not all succumb to its influence: Aide is wholly corrupted, while Radcliff sees his errors in the end. I'm thinking that the presentation at the end of WandaVision was of her reading from the DarkHold, while projecting an external "normal" scene. I had thought that to be her sitting outside her house while having an astral projection read the DarkHold. That ending scene wasn't clear enough in foreshadowing Wanda's corruption.

To me, a weakness is the gap between the end of WandaVision and Wanda's appearance in the movie. While I understand the movie is already quite long, the transition is not adequately presented. I wonder how folks who have not seen WandaVision will handle the transition. There is too much which is not explained unless WandaVision has been seen. I think some showing of Wanda gradually becoming worse and worse are needed. The scene with her and the boys is too small to explain what happened, and feel disconnected. Who are these boys? Where did they come from?

While I do have some concerns about how necessary Wandavision was to understand this, honestly I don't think the movie could have worked with the extra setup if you didn't see it. My feeling is it would have needed at least another 30-60 minutes of context.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Oh. Another thought - I've seen folks mention that the Book of the Vishanti seems like a red herring. It is supposed to give the sorcerer whatever power he needed to face the threat. He gets it and... nothing.

Except he, the only Strange to get the book, is also the only Strange who doesn't dive too deep into the Darkhold, the only Strange to not try to kill America, the only Strange who lets others help him.

So, either he already had what he needed, so the book didn't have to give him anything, or the book gave him the little extra trust/willpower/bravery he needed.

Nobody said the Book of the Vishanti was about blatant power.

Uhm, I have to point out he didn't get the book. It was destroyed just as he got to it.

 

[Umbran]

Uhm, I have to point out he didn't get the book. It was destroyed just as he got to it.

As I recall, he got it - lifted it off its base - but didn't have a chance to read it before it was destroyed.

 

[Thomas Shey]

As I recall, he got it - lifted it off its base - but didn't have a chance to read it before it was destroyed.

That might be correct--I don't remember that precisely--but at the very least he didn't use it, so it adds up to the same thing.

 

[pukunui]

While people have made some good points here, I still think there's an element of sexism in the way Wanda and Strange are portrayed.

Overall, I think I enjoyed Moon Knight more than this movie.

 

[Eric V]

While people have made some good points here, I still think there's an element of sexism in the way Wanda and Strange are portrayed.

Overall, I think I enjoyed Moon Knight more than this movie.

Sure. Again, these aren't real things, they're merely the product of decisions made by human writers, and they decided Psycho Mom trope for Wanda and Strange being able to handle it.

I wonder how people who have no experience with the comics but love the MCU see this; for a lot of us, we know Wanda's comic history, so her turning heel is inline with what we know (we also know what the Darkhold is), but for someone who only knows the character through Olsen's performance, I wonder...

 

[Older Beholder]

One of my favourite scenes in the film was the musical fight towards the end, with the Doctor Strange in the incursion effected universe. It did a good job of keeping up the visually inventive action from the first movie.

 

[pukunui]

I wonder how people who have no experience with the comics but love the MCU see this; for a lot of us, we know Wanda's comic history, so her turning heel is inline with what we know (we also know what the Darkhold is), but for someone who only knows the character through Olsen's performance, I wonder...

Raises hand.

I haven’t read a single Marvel superhero comic ever. I am aware that Wanda vacillates between hero and villain in the comics but do not know the specifics.

While I am not opposed to her becoming a villain (again), I was not satisfied with the way it happened in this movie.

For one thing, it didn’t follow the show well enough for my liking, and it raised more questions than it answered. Is the Wanda from WandaVision dead? How many other Scarlet Witch versions of Wanda are there out there? If this version of Wanda created her kids with magic in a magic bubble, how are there versions of her out there with the same kids not in a magic bubble? How did they come to exist? If we see Wanda again, will it be a non-Scarlet Witch version of her?

And so on and so forth.

I was also expecting to see Wanda and new Vision reunite (at some point, not necessarily in this film) and have him turn back into old Vision (I understand this happens in the comics), but now it seems like that may not happen. Or if it does, it will also be different to my expectations.