D&D (2024) The future of edition changes and revisions

[Warpiglet-7]

Without even finishing the post, much less the thread:

2e was not embraced that warmly. Anecdotally I knew of more groups not playing then did. Sales of core books also never got to where they were in the 1980s.

Forget not T$R.

We rejected it…but it is the DM did grab the monstrous manual

 

[Micah Sweet]

A few thoughts.

1. Lore changes matter a lot less than people seem to think. All you have to do is compare a 5e Monster Manual to an earlier one. Virtually every single monster is changed and often changed significantly. Either the background lore of the race is added to or sometimes completely revised and no one cares. You never hear about how they changed all this lore going into 5e. Because they certainly did, but, again, no one cares. So, all this tempest in a teacup about ASI's and changing this or that race is just the whipping boy du jour and will fade away once people find some other bone to chew on.

2. After ten years, it's not unreasonable to think that we could use a refreshed Core 3. Does anyone really think that's it's unreasonable? That we've learned so little about the game and game design in the past ten+ years that we can't revise the game?

3. The OP mentioned how there wasn't much kerfuffle when 3e rolled out. Umm, there's a pretty large community over at Thunderfoot that might disagree with you there. Never minding an entire OSR community that rejects 3e completely. Might not be as large as the Paizo community but, it isn't small.

4. So long as they don't massively change things, most of the 5e books will still be viable. Sure, you might have some minor changes to race - but that's really easy to institute. Heck, it's quite possible that the majority of people won't even notice. What are the ASI's, without looking it up, for a Halfling? Sure, you might know it offhand, you D&D nerd you , but, most people have no idea. Changing a svirfneblin's abilities? Virtually no one is going to notice. We're talking about a race that is played at a tiny, tiny fraction of tables. 99.9% of tables won't even know the difference. And, none of that will impact, say, the modules or splats, which mean that you can still play Hoard of the Dragon Queen after the revision without any difficulties.

My preference would have been to make a 6e, incorporating any and all changes they wanted to make and accompanied by a new campaign setting conforming to their new sensibilities. Then I could have happily ignored it and continued with my heavily houseruled 5e game. Big mid-edition changes bug the heck out of me. I don't like the majority of what they're doing, and the worst part is that 3rd party publishers making things I do like are likely to "follow the leader" on this stuff.

 

[Micah Sweet]

From 3.0 to 3.5 there was a strong financial incentive to obsolete the 3.0 books and sell the whole line back again to the same audience. The lack of market growth and revenue stream from the splat mill required it.

Now there is significant revenue from licence arrangements with Roll20 and FantasyGrounds, they are getting subscription revenue from D&D beyond and some very sweet player data. They are dropping an edition change in to a much larger and expanding market. That amounts to a very strong incentive to not upset the apple cart.
That is why I would expect additive changes with little direct replacement of older content. Power creep but to be honest in my opinion there is less power creep so far than introduced in the average splat in the 3.5 era.

There is at least one rather lengthy thread here discussing/complaining about the recent direct replacement of older content. I have seen very little indication that any additive changes are on the horizon.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

my first Con I was 14ish I went with my best friend and she was called names I can not type here and I was told to go pound sand becuse 2e was training weeks for babies real men play the one and only Advanced Dungeons and Dragons… we had been playing for a few months maybe (had the book a bit longer but couldn’t get a group together) the only reason I didn’t quit was because my best friend said “gee must be loser day then for that table”

Her comebacks are way more curse fueled today.

I know you are from New ENgland... please tell me this wasn't a big con nor is it still running?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

There is at least one rather lengthy thread here discussing/complaining about the recent direct replacement of older content. I have seen very little indication that any additive changes are on the horizon.

Here we run into the nomenclature of "differences of small changes". I do not regard changes like new version of the monster or even stuff like the Tasha changes for the ranger as invalidating older content. You can build a Hunter Ranger in my game and even replace Primeval Awareness and keep Favoured Enemy, if you want.
I am quite willing to use a Monster Manual Archmage with full slot progression and spells along side a magic user from the newer books with a multiuse Ranged/Melee Spell attack and a more limited spell list and no spell slots.
I do not regard that as a change of any significance. As for lore, I have never been bothered by lore over the last 40 years so why should I start now.
I also regard the controversies here as a storm in a teacup. It is a relatively small number of people with some particular issues. I am not denigrating those issues, they are important to those people to varying degrees. Some will move on and keep their version of the game going, other will play the new version and more will accept some changes, forbid other and houserule some as well. As was ever done.
In the grand scheme of things, ENWorld forum users in their entirety are not worth WoTC marketing getting out of bed in the morning.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Here we run into the nomenclature of "differences of small changes". I do not regard changes like new version of the monster or even stuff like the Tasha changes for the ranger as invalidating older content. You can build a Hunter Ranger in my game and even replace Primeval Awareness and keep Favoured Enemy, if you want.
I am quite willing to use a Monster Manual Archmage with full slot progression and spells along side a magic user from the newer books with a multiuse Ranged/Melee Spell attack and a more limited spell list and no spell slots.
I do not regard that as a change of any significance. As for lore, I have never been bothered by lore over the last 40 years so why should I start now.
I also regard the controversies here as a storm in a teacup. It is a relatively small number of people with some particular issues. I am not denigrating those issues, they are important to those people to varying degrees. Some will move on and keep their version of the game going, other will play the new version and more will accept some changes, forbid other and houserule some as well. As was ever done.
In the grand scheme of things, ENWorld forum users in their entirety are not worth WoTC marketing getting out of bed in the morning.

I don't disagree about WotC's lack of interest in ENWorld, but they have clearly made changes recently intended to replace large amounts of material with new versions. Whether or not those changes matter to an individual are irrelevant to that fact.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I don't disagree about WotC's lack of interest in ENWorld, but they have clearly made changes recently intended to replace large amounts of material with new versions. Whether or not those changes matter to an individual are irrelevant to that fact.

What is stopping you using the older material. What old stuff specifically no longer allowed?

 

[Micah Sweet]

What is stopping you using the older material. What old stuff specifically no longer allowed?

Nothing is stopping me, and I am and will continue to use the older material, houseruled as I see fit.

On DDB, WotC has begun moving content that they have replaced (including the entirety of Volo's and Mordenkainen's, among a few other things) into "legacy" content that in the next few days will no longer be available for purchase. As far as they're concerned, that is clearly a direct replacement of content (and in some cases a removal of such). There is no reason to believe that WotC won't follow suit with AL and eventually physical product, including the 2014 core books when they get around to replacing them.

That of course doesn't have to affect whether or not a particular person or group can use that content, but it is a clear indication of WotC's intentions, and where they want the community to go.

 

[Rabulias]

My preference would have been to make a 6e, incorporating any and all changes they wanted to make and accompanied by a new campaign setting conforming to their new sensibilities. Then I could have happily ignored it and continued with my heavily houseruled 5e game. Big mid-edition changes bug the heck out of me. I don't like the majority of what they're doing, and the worst part is that 3rd party publishers making things I do like are likely to "follow the leader" on this stuff.

Barring a 4e/Pathfinder split among the playerbase, 99% of third party publishers will follow the current version of D&D, whether it is 5.5e or 6e. If you are happy with 5e as it stands, I would think your preference would be for 5.5e, as it will be easier to convert that material to 5e than it would be to convert 6e material.

For myself, I am pretty satisfied with 5e as it stands. The power creep of the recent books does not appeal to me. And I see the benefit of simplified, streamlined monsters, but I don't want them to be the only option -- I would like multiple varieties! Easy-to-run monsters for beginners or more casual games, and versions with more options for those who want more complex opponents. Easier-to-run monsters sound like a middle ground between 4e's minion rules and full, complex creatures.

The anniversary edition will attempt to rebalance the power level for all player options. If they succeed and it's still fun, I might embrace the new rules. IMO the 5e chassis makes it easy to tweak the rules, so I can mix and match, using the elements I like. That will be easier with a 5.5e than with a 6e.

 

[HammerMan]

I know you are from New ENgland... please tell me this wasn't a big con nor is it still running?

Upstate NY not new endland. And I doubt it is running (and those old adults were most likely half the age I am now) it was a college thing and not very good.