D&D 5E Is Tasha's More or Less The Universal Standard?

[Parmandur]

I readily accept the idea that game designers did not assign racial ASIs based on balance considerations, but I think it’s less likely that they don’t recognize any imbalance among the abilities.

That said, there aren’t objectively more valuable abilities. For a given class, there might be one ability that fully and clearly outweighs the others. For some classes, it’s more advantageous to have a moderately high stats in two or three areas than to have one ability maxed out.

Keep in mind also that D&D is usually played as a party-based game, and having characters with an array of strong points is better for the group than characters each focused on Dexterity (as an example).

I mean, that's what they've said consistently for years, well before the Tasha's system. I see no reason to suspect otherwise.

If they were valued differently...ASI would have a difference based on which Atribute is being raised.

 

[Irlo]

I mean, that's what they've said consistently for years, well before the Tasha's system. I see no reason to suspect otherwise.

If they were valued differently...ASI would have a difference based on which Atribute is being raised.

I don’t doubt they said it. It’s just hard for me to believe. I think it’s aspirational thinking. I do believe the value differences are subjective and creating a system of variable costs would fail to reach the goal, in most cases.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I think iynis definitive evidence, frankly. Thry have the math and playtesting data, I see no reason to think any differently because some people feel that a particular attribute is worth more in their gut.

By the same logic we could say that D&D 5e is obviously a highly modular game that supports all play styles because that's what they said it was going to be.

I'm not sure what you mean by "they have the math". Don't we also have the math? And certainly the amount of real playing that has gone on for 8 years now is orders of magnitude greater than their playtesting.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So you feel that it is more powerful. What is the mathematical basis...?

It is more generally valuable, so it should be worth more. I'm not the first person to come up with this idea. Value and worth are synonyms.

 

[Neonchameleon]

So you feel that it is more powerful. What is the mathematical basis...?

Everyone needs initiative and Dex provides that. Everyone needs AC and Dex provides that to most characters. And the three 3.5 saves of Fort (Con), Ref (Dex), and Will (Wis) are more common than the other three saves. Oh, and it's the prime stat for most ranged attacks and many melee attacks.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Politicians also say that all of their constituents are equally important.

Just sayin'.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Not according to the people who built the underlying math of the game, no. Is it useful? Yes. So are all 6 Abilities. There is no balance difference between the bonuses.

It seems fairly trivial (but largely a timesuck) to put a pretty scientific number on the usefulness of the various stats. Something as simple as parsing through every word written in 5e to see the number of references to INT versus DEX is going to skew one way very steeply.

I'm fine with 5e design but even I can admit that DEX is much more useful than INT overall in the design.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Yes, for pregens they take the Mulligan...which is statistically a wash with rolling. For balance purposes, rolling is assumed, and high or low scores don't affect the balance.

I've never seen he Array actually used at a table, but I suppose it happens.

I use the standard array for ally characters and have taught others to use the array for all of theirs ... since 3e. At my table only 1 person rolls, everyone else uses the array. Nobody has used point buy in 5e although some did in 3 (can't remember for 4th).

 

[Parmandur]

I use the standard array for ally characters and have taught others to use the array for all of theirs ... since 3e. At my table only 1 person rolls, everyone else uses the array. Nobody has used point buy in 5e although some did in 3 (can't remember for 4th).

I mean, sure, it works. But it isn't the base assumption of the game's balance, rolling is. Characters rolling high ornlow doesn't break the game, and a point buy build able to squeeze out a little extra isn't a big deal at all.

 

[Parmandur]

I don’t doubt they said it. It’s just hard for me to believe. I think it’s aspirational thinking. I do believe the value differences are subjective and creating a system of variable costs would fail to reach the goal, in most cases.

I see no particular reason to doubt it. Extended playtest over the past 8 years gave them the confidence to double down on it with these changes.

By the same logic we could say that D&D 5e is obviously a highly modular game that supports all play styles because that's what they said it was going to be.

I'm not sure what you mean by "they have the math". Don't we also have the math? And certainly the amount of real playing that has gone on for 8 years now is orders of magnitude greater than their playtesting.

Yes, 5E is a highly modular system thst supports a wide range of playstyles. We are discussing a book of modules in this very thread

Do you have the math...? WotC does imdeed habe years and years of active playtestijg on which to draw. That's how we got the Tasha's rules.

It is more generally valuable, so it should be worth more. I'm not the first person to come up with this idea. Value and worth are synonyms.

"Generally valuable" isn't really rigorous, is it? Every attribute is specifically valuable.

Everyone needs initiative and Dex provides that. Everyone needs AC and Dex provides that to most characters. And the three 3.5 saves of Fort (Con), Ref (Dex), and Will (Wis) are more common than the other three saves. Oh, and it's the prime stat for most ranged attacks and many melee attacks.

Everyone needs HP, too. Applying on some level to multiple characters doesn't denote greater "value" per se.

Politicians also say that all of their constituents are equally important.

Just sayin'.

I trust the D&D design team significantly more than any politician.