D&D 5E Using booming blade on a reaction attack with sanctuary question

[ECMO3]

5' is the increment of movement that provokes an attack that occurs before that 5' movement is completed.

Not true.

Any movement that takes you outside my reach causes an AOO. If you are 4 feet away and move 2 feet that 2-foot move causes an AOO (when the first foot is moved). IF you are 4 feet away and move 1 more foot that does not cause an AOO if you stop then.

No, that's not what I'm suggesting at all. Only that last bit of movement that provokes the OA.

This is exactly what I am saying! You move, only that last bit of that, not the whole 5 feet causes that.

5' is the number. Why? Because any movement less than 5' is abstracted in the rules as remaining in the same space.

To start with it is moving 5 feet away that causes an AOO not "less than" 5 feet away.

Second can you provide a reference suggesting that movement less than 5 feet means you are in the same place?

It's a reasonable DM ruling to say that you must finish moving out of reach after the OA resolves. It's also reasonable to say that you don't have to.

I agree on both points. What I don't agree on is that you have not moved or that you can take back the movement that happened up until that point.

I am not saying you have to move out of reach, what I am saying is you have moved to the limit of the reach (in this case 5 feet) and that is how far away you are.

 

[Maxperson]

Using a grid is an optional rule to start with and not one that supports this argument in the rules anyway.



Moving 4 feet or less means you did not leave my reach and did not cause an AOO. You need to move 5 feet to get to the end of my reach. If you say 5 feet puts you in the next square then it puts you in the next square when the AOO happens.

That really depends on where in the 5 foot square they are standing. It might only be a few to leave your reach and enter a new 5 foot square. If the person is in the middle of his 5 foot square, it doesn't take more than that few feet to enter the next square.

 

[Irlo]

Not true.

Any movement that takes you outside my reach causes an AOO. If you are 4 feet away and move 2 feet that 2-foot move causes an AOO (when the first foot is moved). IF you are 4 feet away and move 1 more foot that does not cause an AOO if you stop then.

I was trying to explain my rationale for my suggested ruling, not making any claims to "truth." In game terms, in my experience, and how we play at my tables, movements on that scale are abstract.

This is exactly what I am saying! You move, only that last bit of that, not the whole 5 feet causes that.

Then we're in agreement on that point. We do disagree on whether distances less than 5' are meaningful in game terms. Creatures occupying and control spaces. They are not points in space with a distance between them that can be measured with that precision.

To start with it is moving 5 feet away that causes an AOO not "less than" 5 feet away.

The OA occurs before the target moves 5' though. So, in that sense, yes, the target is less than 5' away.

Second can you provide a reference suggesting that movement less than 5 feet means you are in the same place?

Nope. I was explaining my interpretation of the overall rules, not suggesting that my interpretation is the only right one. The D&D rules are not that explicit. I think my interpretation is supported (but not required) by the rules about creatures of different sizes occupying spaces.

I agree on both points. What I don't agree on is that you have not moved or that you can take back the movement that happened up until that point.

Agreed. But I wouldn't require a creature to follow through with the movement that would have carried it out of reach of another creature that just made an OA.

I am not saying you have to move out of reach, what I am saying is you have moved to the limit of the reach (in this case 5 feet) and that is how far away you are.

Okay!

 

[Plaguescarred]

Using a grid is an optional rule to start with and not one that supports this argument in the rules anyway.

Moving 4 feet or less means you did not leave my reach and did not cause an AOO. You need to move 5 feet to get to the end of my reach. If you say 5 feet puts you in the next square then it puts you in the next square when the AOO happens.

Right, and we know that a creature provoking an OA didn't move 5+ feet because it would be out of your reach. It is precisely still within 5 feet of you, thus having moved 4 feet or less while it was moving out of your reach. It is attacked before moving that fifth feet that would move it out of your reach since ''the attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach.''. If it decides not not move further, it will remain within 5 feet of you and have moved 4 feet or less.

Thats why i used space/square, because wether you use grid play or not, creatures still occupy a space of 5 feet and have a reach of 5 feet and wether they move by X feet increment or square, there is a minimum distance moving you into a space, square, area or reach.

 

[ECMO3]

Right, and we know that a creature provoking an OA didn't move 5+ feet because it would be out of your reach. It is precisely still within 5 feet of you, thus having moved 4 feet or less while it was moving out of your reach. It is attacked before moving that fifth feet that would move it out of your reach since ''the attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach.''. If it decides not not move further, it will remain within 5 feet of you and have moved 4 feet or less.

Not 4 feet or less, 5 feet, this would be 5- feet, not 4-. I agree it is still in my reach, but my reach is 5 feet not feet or less and not 4 feet.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Somewhat related to the question at hand: do you people allow someone who has been targeted by an OA triggered by leaving reach to interrupt their movement and decide to remain where they are?

In the case of booming blade - yes. If they get hit with BB for trying to move, they can give up the move to avoid the extra damage. New information means a new decision.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The use of a grid seems to be an issue here. The reaction attack occurs when the target is EXACTLY 5 feet away. This means they are standing on the gridline between two cells. Fortunately, Booming Blade does not force an instant stop - they can continue to move without triggering the effect so long as it's less than 5 feet. It's 2.5 feet on to the next square, or 2.5 feet back to the square they just left. I.e. the target gets to choose which cell they end up in. This principle can be extended to any situation where a moving target is hit by an opportunity attack.

 

[jmartkdr2]

The use of a grid seems to be an issue here. The reaction attack occurs when the target is EXACTLY 5 feet away. This means they are standing on the gridline between two cells. Fortunately, Booming Blade does not force an instant stop - they can continue to move without triggering the effect so long as it's less than 5 feet. It's 2.5 feet on to the next square, or 2.5 feet back to the square they just left. I.e. the target gets to choose which cell they end up in. This principle can be extended to any situation where a moving target is hit by an opportunity attack.

If anything I'd say it makes sense on a grid but not without: on a grid, you're either adjacent or 5 feet away - there's nothing in between. So before you actually move to the next square, you trigger the AoO for trying to move. If you successfully move, you trigger BB. The order is clear.

This still mostly works with smaller squares, though it gets a bit weird.

If you try to think of movement as analogue, things get very confusing very quickly, because there's a weird moment where you're both 5 feet away (triggering to AoO) not quite 5 feet away (because you're still in reach).

 

[ECMO3]

The use of a grid seems to be an issue here. The reaction attack occurs when the target is EXACTLY 5 feet away. This means they are standing on the gridline between two cells. Fortunately, Booming Blade does not force an instant stop - they can continue to move without triggering the effect so long as it's less than 5 feet. It's 2.5 feet on to the next square, or 2.5 feet back to the square they just left. I.e. the target gets to choose which cell they end up in. This principle can be extended to any situation where a moving target is hit by an opportunity attack.

Agree completely.

The only thing I will note though is booming blade movement damage triggers on movement of "5 feet or more" so "exactly 5 feet" is included in this and is enough to trigger booming blade from the original effect. If the wording was "more than 5 feet" it would not trigger (assuming he did not keep moving after the reaction attack).

This is of course from the original spell, not from the reaction attack. As for the reaction attack, if you hit with that then the

So to sum up (and I am now pretty convinced this is RAW)

1. I hit enemy with booming blade
2. I cast sanctuary
3.Enemy moves away to attack someone else.
4. Assuming he moves directly away, once he hits exactly 5 feet the booming blade damage triggers and a reaction attack happens
5. Reaction hits for normal damage.
6. He can now move less than 5 feet in any direction without triggering more BB damage. He can also swing at me from where he is standing since I am exactly 5 feet away (if he has a 5 foot reach).

 

[Quartz]

So I attack an enemy with booming blade. I hit, then I cast sanctuary on myself.

How are you generating the Bonus Action required to cast Sanctuary?