D&D 5E Is Tasha's More or Less The Universal Standard?

[Neonchameleon]

if you think the rapier is bad... what are your thoughts on the Longsword?

I don't think the rapier is bad; it was a tongue in cheek reply to a silly comment that was presented as absolute fact saying that one handed warriors should take the rapier. I don't think the rapier is bad. I said it was for amateurs, and I meant it but didn't mean that there were no amateur melee fighters in D&D. The rapier, as the best dex based melee weapon, is good for dex based combatants in melee. This is great for e.g. rogues, archer rangers, bladesingers, melee bards, and most other characters that can hang in melee but aren't primary melee folks. I'm tongue in cheek calling these characters amateurs.

As for why to run a strength build over a dex build it's because if your primary combat role is melee damage strength builds have a significantly higher cap in most cases.

• 2 handed weapons are all strength based (which was accepted in the comment I was replying to).
• Barbarian rage only gives bonus damage to melee attacks made using strength.
• If you have the ability to get a combat feat then the highest damage one handed weapon is the staff or spear using the Polearm Master feat to allow you to attack as a bonus action and sometimes as a reaction. This, of course, only works with strength.
  • This is especially easy for fighters (who get the free feat at level 6)
  • It is also especially beneficial for for paladins (who get extra damage per attack for free at level 11 and also only need to hit to trigger smites).
  • There's even a case for melee clerics to take Polearm master although it isn't nearly as compelling due to some great bonus action spells like Healing Word, Shield of Faith, and Spiritual Weapon and to often casting rather than attacking. But the extra 1-2 attacks when attacking plus the extra d8 damage per attack are nice.

The highest damage melee characters at mid-high level, whether one handed or two handed, are therefore all strength-based. And the "just go rapier" approach is misunderstanding what the best choices are.

The longsword? If you're playing a medium sized rather than small strength based character and 1lb of encumbrance doesn't matter then the longsword is strictly better than the rapier for you because you can use it two handed for more damage. If you're going sword and board it's better than a spear or staff (d8 vs d6) until you have Polearm Master. I therefore consider it a weapon for journeyman characters

There are also exceptions at the edges. For example Echo Knights routinely use their bonus actions to resummon their echo so don't benefit so much from polearm master. And it's not saying you can't use a rapier as a fighter - simply that the idea that you should and by default if you are going one handed is bad advice.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Or they use cantrips. Weapon+booming Blade+movement damage is pretty high damage and it scales better than the bonus action with PAM.

There is that - assuming you get the movement damage. And if you're using cantrips you aren't getting multiple baseline attacks in most cases.

 

[ECMO3]

There's even a case for melee clerics to take Polearm master although it isn't nearly as compelling due to some great bonus action spells like Healing Word, Shield of Faith, and Spiritual Weapon and to often casting rather than attacking. But the extra 1-2 attacks when attacking plus the extra d8 damage per attack are nice.

As I alluded to above, I think melee Clerics are better off with magic initiate booming blade, green flame blade and Hex. Then they do not need to use the bonus action every turn to boost damage.

Another alternative is a 1-level Sorcerer or Warlock dip if you have the Charisma.

 

[Neonchameleon]

As I alluded to above, I think melee Clerics are better off with magic initiate booming blade, green flame blade and Hex. Then they do not need to use the bonus action every turn to boost damage.

Another alternative is a 1-level Sorcerer or Warlock dip if you have the Charisma.

This one's fair

 

[ECMO3]

There is that - assuming you get the movement damage. And if you're using cantrips you aren't getting multiple baseline attacks in most cases.

I think you will use this mostly on a build with 1 attack .... unless it is a bladesinger. Even without movement damage, in tier 2 it is very close to PAM and in tier 3 it is going to pull ahead of PAM without taking the bonus action.

Ideally you would build to get the movement damage. There are a lot of ways to do that though - the mobile feat or crusher or just playing a Goblin are the easiest (although the Goblin uses your bonus action).

Another option on a cleric is playing an Arcane human Cleric with Fey touched (Dissonant Whispers) and warcaster at level 4. This lets you cast dissonant whispers in melee and then hit with a Booming Blade as a reaction attack when they fail the save. That may sound like it is a lot (2 feats) but those are common feats for a cleric build anyway with a lot of general utility outside this neat little trick. Having a free cast of DW and ST at level 1-3 is pretty over the top powerful by itself before warcaster comes online.

 

[James Gasik]

Oh there's another reason to use a rapier on your Paladin. Being Small sized. Though arguably you can use a longsword in both hands (as it's not Heavy), but I've run into a few people who think this is a grey area of the rules and not intended.

 

[Parmandur]

Oh there's another reason to use a rapier on your Paladin. Being Small sized. Though arguably you can use a longsword in both hands (as it's not Heavy), but I've run into a few people who think this is a grey area of the rules and not intended.

A Small character can definitely wield a Longswird in both hands for a d10, and see nobreason to believe that is unintentional.

 

[James Gasik]

If it was easier to find older posts, do I have some people to introduce you to!

EDIT: turns out it was easier than I thought it would be.

 

[James Gasik]

Here's a few:

D&D 5E - Is Tasha's Broken?

D&D 5E - Is Tasha's Broken?

 

[Neonchameleon]

Oh there's another reason to use a rapier on your Paladin. Being Small sized. Though arguably you can use a longsword in both hands (as it's not Heavy), but I've run into a few people who think this is a grey area of the rules and not intended.

Those people are simply wrong. The greatclub is a two handed weapon that lacks ... pretty much any property. And versatile weapons don't even have the two handed property; Crawford confirms that they can be used with Hex Warrior.