D&D General IS the 5 min work day a feature or a bug?

[Seramus]

The fight/trap/puzzle/exploration is the interesting thing itself for me. Not how many whizbangs I have per round. My whizbangs are limited and I need to choose when the right time to pop them is. Though, I get folks like having poppers to pop each round in every fight. Some folks make combat the front and center of their games. It's these diverse approaches that make the 5MWD/5LBWD nut so tough to crack.

Whizbangs are a lot of fun in the Exploration and Social pillars as well! More fun, in my personal opinion. I will often conserve whizbangs in combat just to have more whizbangs in Exploration and Social challenges. But conservation that means basic attacks / pure damage cantrips can be rather uninspiring, as opposed to the somewhat more interesting choices 4E offered during conservation.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

5e... not so much. The 5MWD has wildly disparate impacts depending on class. Sorcerers get a ton of benefit, rogues get nearly nothing.

yeah a warlock that goes 2 encounter then SR then 2 encounters then SR then 2 encounters and LR is doing better than a wizard doing the same... but really even the BARBARIAN is on 2 rages per day for most the game and as such the wizard noving in 3 encounters and the barbarian rageing in 2 out of 3 encounters weather the Warlock gets a SR or not are still better off resting then going on...

 

[Minigiant]

Yeah I guess that's a better way of putting it - their base chassis design there was a bad one. They should have gone with Battlemaster as the base chassis for Fighter, and made it so different Fighters spent the dice differently, Champion could have like, only one way to spend them, and it's extra damage or something (it would probably be a more effective subclass to boot).

They should have made the Battlemaster and Champion into their own classes. So people who wanted to be warrior but manage resources could and the people who wanted be warrior be not manage anything could as well.

THAT is the bug.

The should be a resource warrior, a nonresource warrior, a resource caster, and a nonresource caster.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

They should have made the Battlemaster and Champion into their own classes. So people who wanted to be warrior but manage resources could and the people who wanted be warrior be not manage anything could as well.

THAT is the bug.

The should be a resource warrior, a nonresource warrior, a resource caster, and a nonresource caster.

100% I even think the champion could get the fighter name (maybe with 2 or 3 simple builds) and the battle master, and the eldritch knight both should be there own class.
the battle master can be called Warblade, Swordsage, Marshal, Warlord, Anime Sword Guy... or what ever
the eldritch knight can be the gish, magus, duskblade, swordmage, what ever

 

[Greg Benage]

If an attrition model of resource management figures prominently in your game design, it's a bug. If your game design doesn't feature an attrition model of resource management, the "five-minute workday" just, poof, disappears.

So yeah...it's a bug.

 

[jmartkdr2]

100% I even think the champion could get the fighter name (maybe with 2 or 3 simple builds) and the battle master, and the eldritch knight both should be there own class.
the battle master can be called Warblade, Swordsage, Marshal, Warlord, Anime Sword Guy... or what ever
the eldritch knight can be the gish, magus, duskblade, swordmage, what ever

Champion -> Fighter. Subclasses are fighting styles / loadouts (greatweapon, duelist, heavy armor guy, lancer, maybe archer)
Battlemaster -> either keep that name or pull from the Book of Nine Swords (warblade). Subclasses are archtypes of highy skilled weapon masters: swashbuckler, samurai, gladiator, warlord
Eldritch Knight -> or swordmage. People will get it when you tell them it doesn't need to be a sword. Subclasses by magic type: arcane, dragon, hexblade, bladesinger, shadowblade, etc.

It's not hard, which is why it's so frustrating from the outside. But familiarity was a design goal of 5e and three kinds of fighter isn't familiar enough.

 

[Mort]

If an attrition model of resource management figures prominently in your game design, it's a bug. If your game design doesn't feature an attrition model of resource management, the "five-minute workday" just, poof, disappears.

So yeah...it's a bug.

Honest Question - how do you implement D&D style spellcasting without an attrition style of resource management?

 

[Greg Benage]

Honest Question - how do you implement D&D style spellcasting without an attrition style of resource management?

Depending on what you mean by "D&D style," you probably don't.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I'm still not seeing where "I nova and rest in a safe place" is asking for the world to stop or for "he universe to set its watch to their beat and wait for them to be ready rather than the other way around"

can you explain how useing your resources (more often then not including to get said rest) then resting then hitting the next challenge is an issue of entitlement?

Because it’s basically asking the world to not give them another encounter until they’re ready to face it on their own terms and that there be a readily available place to rest in the first place, ’no thank you sir we’ve already expended all our resources and don’t want another encounter today, come back after we’ve rested’ , that the world won’t notice or react to them slowly progressing one fight a day through the forest/cave/stronghold, that the bandits won’t shore up their defences, the bounty monster won’t run away or get poached by another group, that the wizard wont prepare specific spells to counter the group he’s getting a very good look at every day using their maximum abilities in each fight.

 

[Minigiant]

The "world is supposed to react" line also doesn't work nor track.

The difference between (A) spending 80% if your resources on Floor 1 and 20% on the trek home and (B) spending 20% if your resources on Floor 1 20% on Floor 2, 20% on Floor 3, 20% on Floor, and 20% on the trek home are

1. You went to Floors 2-4 and could have gained treasure there
2. The stuff on Floors 2-4 could have killed you.

Outside of time limits, competition of other groups, or a restrictions on number of entry, there is no benefit of doing a whole dungeon in one attempt. The smart plan is to keep coming back and chipping away and the defenses and hoard.