D&D 5E Are Per Rest Resources a Hindrance?

[Li Shenron]

citation needed... just because people continue to play the overall game doesn't mean that they don't dislike (or in TTRPG we can change it) it and it shouldn't be changed...

dislike =/= broken

 

[GMforPowergamers]

dislike =/= broken

um... if you feel that way then just becuse you like it doesn't mean it isn't broken... this is the round about going on in almost every thread right now

 

[Mort]

Or... we could have a fighter that has things to do.

'Most popular' because people get forced to play it as the starter class, which is also part of the reason they're not allowed to be good. Because we act like people who never played D&D before can't operate anything more complicated than swinging a sharp stick. Someone even suggested they might be confused about rage for god's sake.

The BM fighter has plenty of things to do.

Now, should they be able to do those things more often (4 per short rest is pretty anemic) and should they have more out of combat maneuvers available? Sure, but the chassis is sound.

Eldritch knights also have a decent amount of options as do Rune Knights.

Cavaliers are the only fighter subclass to even approach the 4e fighter in terms of protection.

Echo nights are interesting and have some funky options.

And from what I've seen, people seem to like the Psi Warriors they've played and don't feel too option limited.

So that's a bunch of the subclasses that are good to very good. Could they be improved, sure, but they have good fun roles within any party.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I like proficiency bonus per day, regain half on short rest. It allows for some difference between daily casters and other classes.

 

[Shardstone]

I like proficiency bonus per day, regain half on short rest. It allows for some difference between daily casters and other classes.

This is fine, but one thing I have noticed is that having a bunch of features that are prof bonus per day gets to be a pain in the butt to track after a while if you aren't using some kind of VTT. I guess a reimagined character sheet could do it, but that'd be an extensive character sheet.

This isn't to say that things are easier to track now, I don't think they are.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Furthermore, my greater question still stands: what is so fun about being the only person still able to fight after everyone else has spent all their resources? I find it very difficult to think that the mass appeal of the Fighter or Rogue is that after 10 combats, they begin to shine. I'm not sure anyone wants to grind out 8 encounters per day in order to actually feel useful, or that this particular kind of fun (which is completely valid) is something that the game should be based around.

Not only do you get to be mediocre all day long, you can continue being mediocre after everyone else has packed it up! Sure, you never get to do anything flashy, but what consistency!

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I do get the "samey" complaints for encounter focused powers. We got into a pretty static rotation in 4E that fed into this. I would like some kind of mid-fight resource generation system ideally to shake things up. Gain momentum from landing attacks, dodging, provoking attacks of opportunity etc then expend them on a daring maneuver. Build up rage each time you're attacked or miss an attack. I really wish Mearls had brought some of that Iron Heroes design to D&D. Make resource generation somewhat unpredictable and you break the scripts.

Granted, that would require them acknowledging some people who play fighters want to be more engaged with the mechanics of the game rather than relegating the class to noob training wheels. They should have 4 simple classes (without subclasses) to allow for various tastes. Make the champion its own class with big bonuses/lots of attacks as its schtick, have some kind of elementalist for simpler caster, and some kind of healer/priest. The thief rogue is pretty good for a beginner class as is.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Not only do you get to be mediocre all day long, you can continue being mediocre after everyone else has packed it up! Sure, you never get to do anything flashy, but what consistency!

A small price to pay for immersion!

 

[FallenRX]

In order to make precisely controlled outcomes you need precisely controlled inputs, so Encounter per rest design is naturally awful.
Because if your design your game around players NEEDING to blow resources to get around an encounter, otherwise the balance fails, your naturally limiting player expression, because you NEED them to burn resources, you NEED them to fight an encounter, you need them to do something to burn resources.

This naturally goes against the player agency, which is what this genre is founded on, and what sustains it.

The Alexandrian has a good tweet thread on this, and this is a good follow up to it

 

[GMforPowergamers]

In order to make precisely controlled outcomes you need precisely controlled inputs, so Encounter per rest design is naturally awful.
Because if your design your game around players NEEDING to blow resources to get around an encounter, otherwise the balance fails, your naturally limiting player expression, because you NEED them to burn resources, you NEED them to fight an encounter, you need them to do something to burn resources.

some of the worst games I ever played had DMs get mad because we didn't want to engage the encounter they way THEY wanted and planed for us to...
But I always find it funny when a DM (normally one we don't keep playing with) would keep upping the power and risk until we decided not to engage... then get mad "WHY WONT YOU FIGHT MY 300 MONSTERS?"