• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

D&D 5E Are Per Rest Resources a Hindrance?

I think it can be different and I already do it differently: make classes a bit more similar in ressource management and then just use the rest schedule that fits your group best. That is what they found out in the dndnext playtest but did not put in the phb but instead in the dmg as an option which does not have the same authority.
The issue is a noticeable and loud percentage of the community bawks at the idea of putting all classes at a similiar schedule.

The best you can do is the eldritch knight, arcane trickster, paladin/ranger and full casters.

The problem is spell are different percentages of their power and still affect and are affected by the resting schedule differently.

This is why I harp on the overly obviously blantantly magical barbarian. The barbarian used to be the Long Rest martial warrior. But allthe subclasses but 2* are so blatantly magical and the 2 that are "purely" martial are so broken or restrictive that you can't play a Long Rest Martial Warrior in 5e.

5.5e or 6e needs more classes. The "No more new classes" crowd haven't come up with a solution yet.

*Berserker and Battlerager
 

log in or register to remove this ad


The issue is a noticeable and loud percentage of the community bawks at the idea of putting all classes at a similiar schedule.

The best you can do is the eldritch knight, arcane trickster, paladin/ranger and full casters.

The problem is spell are different percentages of their power and still affect and are affected by the resting schedule differently.

This is why I harp on the overly obviously blantantly magical barbarian. The barbarian used to be the Long Rest martial warrior. But allthe subclasses but 2* are so blatantly magical and the 2 that are "purely" martial are so broken or restrictive that you can't play a Long Rest Martial Warrior in 5e.

5.5e or 6e needs more classes.

*Berserker and Battlerager

I think less people would like more classes... But that is just a guess.
 

Remember that player that I said should be playing a champion fighter? He plays a battle master. I think he's used his superiority dice 2-3 times. They're level 15 now.

That's not to say he's a bad player, I enjoy having him at the table. But he just doesn't remember to use them. Heck, I remind him now and then to use his action surge.

Some people just need simple.

Ok. But it is a difference between chosing between different abilities and spending your single action die and just add 2d6 damage for the first 5 rolls per combat.
 

I think less people would like more classes... But that is just a guess.
That's the whole problem.

Just because you like something doesn't mean it's a good idea.

D&D is hindered by people liking inherently flawed ideas and offering no solutions to fix the problems that keep cropping up.
 

Again, I have never seen a new player happy to be forced to play the 'simple' class. The whole idea of giving them an 'uncomplicated toy' to play with because we assume they're too dumb to operate Rage is condescending.
I've just finished a campaign where in the course of 2.5 years and maybe 50 (really short) sessions one of my players was able to attend maybe a dozen times. Because he was able to attend so infrequently, and because the sessions were short, it was a positive boon that he was able to play a Champion Fighter and just jump into the action.

As for new players, some might find it useful to have a simple option to start with, others may not. I have no interest in forcing them.

The main problem with Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster comes from the core of the subclass system where a subclass is there just to fulfil a single concept but 'Magic Warrior' and 'Magic Rogue' are broader concepts than what they're trying to provide.
Fair enough. I was more interested in commenting on the need for crunchier Fighters and Rogues (and Barbarians and Monks, for that matter) that are not spellcasters. Because I don't think players who want something a little more complex should be forced into that one niche, either.
 

I've just finished a campaign where in the course of 2.5 years and maybe 50 (really short) sessions one of my players was able to attend maybe a dozen times. Because he was able to attend so infrequently, and because the sessions were short, it was a positive boon that he was able to play a Champion Fighter and just jump into the action.

As for new players, some might find it useful to have a simple option to start with, others may not. I have no interest in forcing them.

That's why there should be a Champion class (at-will), a Fighter class (short rest), and a "Martial" Barbarian class (long rest).

Or a Fighter class (NR) and a Battlemaster Class (SR) and a Berserker Classes (LR).
 

That's the whole problem.

Just because you like something doesn't mean it's a good idea.

D&D is hindered by people liking inherently flawed ideas and offering no solutions to fix the problems that keep cropping up.
On the other hand, to be fair, that goes both ways. The Fighter's paradigm worked very well for many years, because there wasn't much to compare it to.

You had (mostly) the highest hit points, best attack bonus, more attacks, could use the best weapons and armor, best save progression, and had the least need for high ability scores (but had access to a secret bonus round if you did have high scores!).

You were the first in, first out, guy, and you did the bulk of the work in defeating encounters. Skills? We roll ability checks for that (save for that darned Thief).

When Non-Weapon Proficiencies became a thing, that weakened the Fighter, but not by much, since nobody got a lot of these (unless you used the option for trading languages for bonus slots). And even then, the Fighter had some neat things to do with Weapon Proficiencies.

Then 3e got a new generation into the game and they noticed things like "hey, why do monsters have to engage the Fighter anyways? Why don't they just murder the Cleric?"

The game designers said "well, we thought about that, so you can invest in cool tricks like spiked chains and improved trip!".

And DM's said "that's silly. also, ranged attacks!"

And spellcasters, with a few of their restrictions removed, said "man, spells are really good."

And Fighters said "well, we have tricks!"

And WotC said "yeah, but tricks can't be GOOD, because you get so many of them. So we'll gate the halfway decent ones behind 3 cruddy tricks, since you get so many anyways, it's no problem, right?"

Fighters found themselves having to plan out builds, put more thought into what tricks they wanted to have, sigh when they didn't get buffs because the casters were having all the fun (jerks), wonder why they lost their great saves, and if their ultra specific build doesn't work today? Well that's just life.

While the Cleric just prays for an entirely new spell list.

And now look where we are. A Fighter can have more Feats, which do more, but they are optional. They have a few class features, some garbage like 1/day rerolls of saves (and they still haven't gotten their good saves back!), and spellcasters are still not giving them buffs, because now they can only have one spell with a duration going (mostly)!

They don't excel at skills anymore than anyone else, they still have no real way to force enemies to engage them outside of limited resources, so all they have is "I swing....for mediocre damage, because monsters have way too many hit points!"*

*I admit to some hyperbole here, but really, 2d6+5 twice per round with an ordinary greatsword is all you're getting for most of your career, unless you have some superiority dice.

I know, GWM, but again, Feats are optional, and a lot of DM's seem to hate GWM, based on vitriol about it I've seen online in the past.

The Fighter feels to me like it needs something. I bet if the Champion gave out static damage boosts and better saves, a lot of players would look at Battlemaster the way we look at the Berserker, lol.
 

That's why there should be a Champion class (at-will), a Fighter class (short rest), and a "Martial" Barbarian class (long rest).

Or a Fighter class (NR) and a Battlemaster Class (SR) and a Berserker Classes (LR).
Indeed. Though I'm very much on the fence about whether they should be classes, sub-classes, or some mix.

(Also, I do find myself starting to think the Fighter and the Rogue should be combined into a single Hero class that does both the martial stuff (in various flavours) and the skill stuff. But that's yet another discussion.)
 


Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top