D&D 5E First World: Possibly One of the New D&D setting?

[Micah Sweet]

As I said, every single bit of lore that's put out is optional, and people need to remember it.

If people believed that, no one would be irritated by lore they don't like. The human brain doesn't work that way. If you like something, you care about it. If you care about it, you probably don't want other people to change it. You especially don't want other people to change it while also talking about how much the original version you liked sucks.

 

[SakanaSensei]

If people believed that, no one would be irritated by lore they don't like. The human brain doesn't work that way. If you like something, you care about it. If you care about it, you probably don't want other people to change it. You especially don't want other people to change it while also talking about how much the original version you liked sucks.

Stasis is death and 'canon' is a lie. I can like Fizban's, dislike Strixhaven, like Eberron and dislike Dark Sun very easily without getting in a twist about it, just take what you like and move on.

 

[teitan]

There's a difference between a completely new setting that operates unto itself, and a meta-setting like the First World that could - if taken as more than a myth - have mechanical and lore impacts on all the other official D&D settings. I know there are also Eberron fans here, for example, that aren't happy about the First World (or the previous 5E retcon that placed its cosmology within a pocket of the Great Wheel). And recall how in 4E, they didn't just introduce the World Axis cosmology, but rearranged elements of the existing settings to match it; I assume it's a similar concern here.

Personally, I think the First World is a neat retcon... but I also want it to be one of multiple options for the origin of the D&D multiverse. However, I also understand why others may see it as an unwelcome intrusion and have concerns about its effects.

All of that is jumping to conclusions and acting as if WOTC can tell you what to include and disclude in your home game. It assumes a game that has no default setting will have a required setting and you have to adhere to it. They aren’t stupid. They know that isn’t D&D. D&D has a set of assumptions about the world but has no setting in and of itself but a multitude of settings.

 

[JEB]

D&D has a set of assumptions about the world but has no setting in and of itself but a multitude of settings.

It's those base assumptions that are core to some folks' concern, because they influence future official products. And obviously anyone can ignore official products, but equally obviously, most folks want official material that works in their home games. They just changed base assumptions for a number of lore and mechanical things in MOTM, so I'm not surprised some are similarly viewing the First World with concern.

Now, if Wizards publishes new material that explicitly defies MOTM lore or the First World concept, it would probably do a lot to ease such concerns. I guess we'll see over the next few years.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Stasis is death and 'canon' is a lie. I can like Fizban's, dislike Strixhaven, like Eberron and dislike Dark Sun very easily without getting in a twist about it, just take what you like and move on.

A matter of opinion no more "true" than the other view.

 

[Rogerd1]

Not really always the case in D&D (not 2e and not 5e at least).

Absolutely yes in 5e, and it is why there have been Epic level books by 3PP, and the Gods and Goddesses by Jetpack. They really are not all that.
In fact one of the games get that it more right was Midgard and Southlands with the gods being more cosmic and using disguises (changing shape) and taking on the role of multiple god roles, so Thor, Perkun, and Zeus are likely the same being.

Now Mutants and Masterminds has the gods living in separate magical realms, but also cosmic beings called Incarnate and Ascendants.

Also, that is infinite better than Thanos supplanting all of the cosmic powers with the cosmic cube or the infinity gauntlet. The stupidity of that idea just boggles the mind.

The Infinity Gems were supposed to be essentially the abstracts, sort of. This was then retconned, such that they only work in one universe. And this is copied in Loki series when the Time Bureau have a gazillion of them.

Sure, why not. But like I said I prefer it as the Primordials started it. Gods can play the long game. It may have taken them a billion years to create the ritual that produced the big bang, but they can do it

Then do that infinite times. Yeah, that just does not work. And this is why the cosmology is so flawed WotC have no idea.

I did say across time. I really haven't read comics in 20-30 years so my info is very outdated. Are there still things like parallel universes with different versions of the earth and stuff like that? When that became a thing I was just like...ugh!

Parallel universes mirrors science.
There are currently multiple models of what the multiverse could be, so although the maths is pointing that way observation may likely never come on that one. But maybe it will....who knows?

I'm curious, what do you consider the D&D cosmology?

The generic cosmology is that shown in the DMG with the outer and inner planes. Although in there multiple multiverse models have been provided.

I personally think there isn't one. We are just provided with rumors and suggestions, but nothing concrete IMO. That is the way I like it so I can weave what I want and don't want into my own game's.

There does need to be something concrete for things to make sense.

 

[Rogerd1]

That. Does. Not. Matter.
The story is a myth that the dragons tell to justify their narcissism and xenophobia against all other creatures. Whether or not you think the events described in it actually could have happened does not matter. Because it's a story that may or may not have actually happened (and probably didn't happen as the dragons tell it).

Trouble is lore is short, so there is nothing to say it is incorrect. So it may be true, which would be a problem.

No such thing as level 30 in D&D 5e.

Yes there is. See the Epic Level stuff created by 3PP.

Again, it's a story. If you're taking it seriously and as written, you're interpreting it (and the purpose of it being included in the book) incorrectly.

There needs to be some lore that makes sense.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

@Micah Sweet but here's the key part, page 6, emphasis added

"Whether it is regarded as interpretive myth or historical record, "Elegy for the First World" offers an explanation for the common elements that appear in the Legends and mythology of so many worlds across the Material Plane. Dragons populated the First World from the time of its creation, and a variety of people came to live in the First World after their gods made war on the Dragons. As such, the many different worlds of the Material Plane can be seen as a product of the First World's sundering."

It's a myth meanr to be a game design and DM empowerment tool.

To be clear, it's a myth or historical record. Which it actually is, will be up to the DM.

Now, I believe that the First World will be it's own setting, but much of its actual creation, and even impact on the wider Multiverse, will be kept in more vague terms. Much like the standard 5E Ravenloft has set up, where there are several potential explanations, but none are explicitly true.

Whether the First World will be locked in as "if you play a game here, it's in the past" or whether it is a copy of the First World, or the First World is the "Prime World," or locked away from the wider Multiverse... I don't know. But personally, I don't see much reason for there to be this much teasing of the First World and then for it not to be explored in a much more deep way.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

To be clear, it's a myth or historical record.

No, it's couched in figurative language. Not a historical record in any way.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

No, it's couched in figurative language. Not a historical record in any way.

Fizban's literally say it can be historical. A line directly from the text;

Whether it is regarded as interpretive myth or historical record, "Elegy for the First World" offers an explanation for the common elements that appear in the legends and mythology of so many worlds across the Material Plane.