D&D 5E Would you allow switching shield proficiency for Agonizing Blast as a DM?

[jgsugden]

I'd say no. They are not equivalent, and it provides a significant upgrade in power to the PC for no cost. You're adding a lot of damage each round, especially as they advance in level. I am pretty open minded about about these types of swaps, but you're asked to make a commitement to the class in order to get this benefit, and they are not making that commitement.

In this circumstance, I would allow them to trade out blade flourish or their fighting style for an invocation, but they'd still need to qualify for it. Otherwise, they'd need to devote the levels to hexblade to get the invocations.

On a side note: When players want to dip for Hexblade in my games, I make sure they understand that they're making a deal when they take a level of Warlock, and that has consequences. The deal isn't always with a sentient weapon from the Shadowfell - but it is something dark and powerful - and the PCs are expected to live up to the terms of the deal. The deal will be negotiated witht he PC (usually on a high level - not detailed) and will impact the campaign. These deals are RPG gold - but you need to make sure the warlock feels like a warlock .... not an eldritch archer with few spells.

 

[bedir than]

somewhat true.

But in d&d you could say, give me ranger basic training(3 skills + 2 armor categories) instead of fighter ones(2 skills + 3 armor categories)

Your example shows 1 or 2 armor proficiencies that won't be used

 

[Horwath]

Your example shows 1 or 2 armor proficiencies that won't be used

what 2 armor proficiencies?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

my defualt is to say no... and remind him at 5th level (1/4) he gets a feat he can take the invocation as a feat (Eldritch disciple I think)

edit: and I would tell him to ignore builds like that... take his second level of warlock for gods sake...

Which would be better anyway on most levels. A second short rest recharge spell and 2 invocations are very good.
He won't even notice a big difference at level 5, since 2 agonizing blasts + hex will keep the damage on par with normal weapon users and the second invocation can be a great utility asset.
I also would not worry about not getting an extra feat on lvl 19.
A hexblade/sword bard does not need a lot besides charisma and 14 dexterity. So you can take 2 feats without worrying (if you do worry usually if your mainstats are not 20)

 

[Burnside]

Number 2 is true, but sometimes character concepts or portions of them need to be realized at level 1 for the character to feel right. Not always, but sometimes.

If it really MUST happen at level 1, a variant human can do it. And variant human feels very Witcher.

 

[bedir than]

what 2 armor proficiencies?

A fighter gets three. They may only use 1 of those.

 

[Horwath]

A fighter gets three. They may only use 1 of those.

for most fighters, heavy armor can stay unused 100% of the time, that is why I said that heavy armor should be replaced with skill proficiency.

outside if that, even if you are high dex archer, you can utilize medium armor and shields a lot.

with 16 starting dex, breastplate will do you more good than studded leather, and later you have options to use both light and medium magic armor(whatever gives more), for heavy you just have to wait for mithral fullplate.

And you will not be able to use your longbow every time, then rapier+shield is better than just rapier or two shortswords

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Right, because being able to paint is just like being mechanically harder to hit. That is not a sidegrade. A sidegrade needs a mechanical combat bonus to be comparable or a significant out of combat mechanical boost. Painting tools ain't it.

I think the point that @ECMO3 was making was that for this particular character (who is explicitly not using a shield, so this class feature is useless in that sense), switching for proficiency in painter's tools is a sidegrade.

 

[billd91]

You can add me to the chorus of No on this one. Basically, this is a question of trading in something the PC would have gotten very cheaply for something significantly more expensive (a whole level or feat). If getting the extra damage on eldritch blasts is that important to the player, they should pay the cost. Besides, they could then pick up another invocation that could be very helpful to them or bard-thematic-friendly like devil's sight, beast speech, or eyes of the rune keeper.

 

[Maxperson]

I think the point that @ECMO3 was making was that for this particular character (who is explicitly not using a shield, so this class feature is useless in that sense), switching for proficiency in painter's tools is a sidegrade.

But it isn't, because if this character does not make the switch, having the proficiency means that shields are usable in an emergency with no penalty, and emergencies happen. So it's not a sidegrade unless the painters tools will add +2 to AC in an emergency.