D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

[dave2008]

The reason I give my spellcasters the full complement of spells is for the same reason I memorize all my PC spellcaster spells carefully. Because I want to maximize my chances of having something useful to do in unknown future situations.

If the PCs do something unexpected or outside of the narrow spells shown in the OP, I'm put in a bad position. I know that Vecna would have many more spells than he is given, so what do I do? If I just give him the spell needed, then it just feels wrong to me because he didn't have that spell in advance, so it feels to me like I'm giving him what he needs to get out of jail free. On the flip side, he's a freaking spellcasting genius and would have a myriad of spells to get out of bad situations, so if I don't give it to him, I feel like I'm shortchanging him.

I don't want to be placed in a position where both giving him the spell he needs and not giving him the spell he needs feels wrong. If I give him a full list, then if he has the spell I can use it with a free conscience. And if he doesn't have the spell, I don't feel bad about leaving him in the bad situation. It's a lot more work and most of the spells won't be used, but it's worth the effort to me to not be placed in a lose/lose situation.

I don't have such worries. I concern myself with making the game fun, not meta concerns of statblocks or terrain or encounters or... I do realize everyone is different and as different issues.

I gave my Vecna (Vecna the Archlich) a full slate of spellcasting options as I like to design / create monsters that speak to the whole world. Such detail is really just a design exercise, it is not really useful for me. Actually, I don't usually use the monsters I make and prefer just using MM versions and improvising anything extra I need when we play.

 

[Reynard]

I don't know that to be the case. DMs traditionally buy a lot more content then players, so they try to marked to DMs. I am 99.999% a DM and I have bought more 5e books than any other edition because a feel like there is a lot more stuff marketed to me.

That may be true but the quality and usefulness of the DM facing material is nowhere near the player facing material. You get a couple monster books and adventures, and a few half baked subsystems and optional rules in the mail player oriented books, but there is nothing in the 5E catalog that resembles the GM facing material of previous editions (environment books and rules deep dives and complete and well developed subsystems).

 

[Stoutstien]

I don't know that to be the case. DMs traditionally buy a lot more content then players, so they try to marked to DMs. I am 99.999% a DM and I have bought more 5e books than any other edition because a feel like there is a lot more stuff marketed to me.

I think that's more of a happy accident than a purposely targeted sales model. DMs buy more stuff because the tend to just have a higher investment in the hobby overall but because they make up a fraction of the pool it doesn't warrant the volume in which they publish. It also doesn't really matter how bad it is because the player pool dictates the buying power regardless who spends the money. It's like toys. The vast majority of them are purchased by adults who don't get any direct satisfaction from them as products. They will continue to put at least a fraction of player faced options in every book because that space is driving sales.

 

[dave2008]

That may be true but the quality and usefulness of the DM facing material is nowhere near the player facing material. You get a couple monster books and adventures, and a few half baked subsystems and optional rules in the mail player oriented books, but there is nothing in the 5E catalog that resembles the GM facing material of previous editions (environment books and rules deep dives and complete and well developed subsystems).

I guess I just never needed that stuff as a DM as I didn't buy those supplements.

 

[dave2008]

I think that's more of a happy accident than a purposely targeted sales model. DMs buy more stuff because the tend to just have a higher investment in the hobby overall but because they make up a fraction of the pool it doesn't warrant the volume in which they publish. It also doesn't really matter how bad it is because the player pool dictates the buying power regardless who spends the money. It's like toys. The vast majority of them are purchased by adults who don't get any direct satisfaction from them as products. They will continue to put at least a fraction of player faced options in every book because that space is driving sales.

Possibly.

 

[Reynard]

I guess I just never needed that stuff as a DM as I didn't buy those supplements.

It's not about "needing" stuff, it is about having materials meant to inspire your imagination and provide new and interesting tools for play -- both of which contribute to keeping the game fresh. Of course, if campaigns are meant to last less than 18 months and tell one contained story, it's less of a concern.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Saying something is outdated implies that it has been replaced by an objectively superior alternative. That is simply not the case, and quite frankly telling someone their views are outdated is insulting.

My apologies, I didn't intend to insult. I do not think saying something is outdated means the replacement is superior. If that is the accepted assumption I didn't realize it. I simply meant outdated as in "not current." No judgement in superiority. For example, I think 4e is an outdated and also superior edition of Dungeons and Dragons.

 

[Stoutstien]

I guess I just never needed that stuff as a DM as I didn't buy those supplements.

That's one of the key problems with trying to target DMs as a market. Gaps in skills and needs are so different. like I think random tables are a 100% waste of ink and page space but some DMs live off them. I happy middle ground would be to have a sample table and then a format for building them rather than having 8 dozen of them.
In the end you would need to ether make a dozen different approaches or try to form a single primary style and build from there. Neither of those are all that practically for 5e.
The only way I see that could work is to have material focused on a single aspect of the game. You could have an entire book on encounter building and how to modify them for different theme,
challenge, and pacing changes. I wouldn't use it but man could I name a handful of DMs Id probably gift it to.

 

[dave2008]

It's not about "needing" stuff, it is about having materials meant to inspire your imagination and provide new and interesting tools for play -- both of which contribute to keeping the game fresh. Of course, if campaigns are meant to last less than 18 months and tell one contained story, it's less of a concern.

I guess I didn't need those things as inspiration in my games. I mean we have been playing the same campaign since 5e started (we only got to level 15 before COVID) and I don't lack anything I need for inspiration.

Listen, I can only comment based on my experience. I am not denying yours and others may be different.

 

[dave2008]

That's one of the key problems with trying to target DMs as a market. Gaps in skills and needs are so different. like I think random tables are a 100% waste of ink and page space but some DMs live off them. I happy middle ground would be to have a sample table and then a format for building them rather than having 8 dozen of them.
In the end you would need to ether make a dozen different approaches or try to form a single primary style and build from there. Neither of those are all that practically for 5e.
The only way I see that could work is to have material focused on a single aspect of the game. You could have an entire book on encounter building and how to modify them for different theme,
challenge, and pacing changes. I wouldn't use it but man could I name a handful of DMs Id probably gift it to.

That is possible. Personally my group doesn't have any need for new player options as we are still using the same characters we made at the start of 5e (except our Rogue Scout - aka Ranger)