D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

[Reynard]

I guess I didn't need those things as inspiration in my games. I mean we have been playing the same campaign since 5e started (we only got to level 15 before COVID) and I have to lack anything I need for inspiration.

Listen, I can only comment based in my experience. I am not denying yours and others may be different.

I don't mean to imply that everyone needs it, rather just that there is a market for it that WotC has completely ignored with 5e.

 

[dave2008]

I don't mean to imply that everyone needs it, rather just that there is a market for it that WotC has completely ignored with 5e.

My only response is that there is probably a reason for that. It is hard to argue with their financial success, which is the primary goal.

 

[Reynard]

My only response is that there is probably a reason for that. It is hard to argue with their financial success, which is the primary goal.

I'm sure it doesn't fit their return model. It's not that such books probably wouldn't be profitable, but they probably wouldn't be profitable enough for WotC. Which is of course where the robust 5E OGL ecosystem comes in. It's not like I can't find those books, it just feels sometimes like WotC doesn't care much about DMs despite the huge importance they have to sustaining the hobby. No DMs, no D&D.

 

[Stoutstien]

My only response is that there is probably a reason for that. It is hard to argue with their financial success, which is the primary goal.

Timing was perfect honestly which was dumb luck than anything. It was interesting watching TTRPGS grow in the 00s basically in the dark with minimal market then the perfect storm of cross media exposure and nostalgia hit and boom. My player pool tripled basically overnight before next even started playtest.
I won't deny WoTCs success but I think like most stuff it wasn't due to some perfect plan and execution.

 

[Reynard]

Timing was perfect honestly which was dumb luck than anything. It was interesting watching TTRPGS grow in the 00s basically in the dark with minimal market then the perfect storm of cross media exposure and nostalgia hit and boom. My player pool tripled basically overnight before next even started playtest.
I won't deny WoTCs success but I think like most stuff it wasn't due to some perfect plan and execution.

If you think about it, it's pretty wild that the appearance of D&D in Stranger Things did what it did. I mean, Vin Diesel had come out as a gamer years before and it hardly moved the needle. And of course once ST got people interested in D&D as passive entertainment, CR and other streams took off and D&D benefited. But really what did WotC do in those early days to "earn" that success?

I do think more recently they have done a great job of turning interest into sales. I think it is a very much open question how much of this new cohort will be around for the long term, and (more importantly) where this generation's White Wolf will emerge from.

 

[Hussar]

I think there are things from 4e, just not the engine. I also agree that somethings are a development from 4e, but that doesn't mean it still has a 4e engine. To me, these are important core things in 4e that are not in 5e:

• Powers
• Unified AEDU structure across classes
• Healing surges and healing control
• Roles (PCs and Monsters)
• Progress rate (aka not bounded accuracy)
• tactical combat
• Paths and Destinies
• Combat advantage and stacking bonuses (aka not advantage / disadvantage)

Whereas to me, this is all how the engine is applied, not the engine itself. Progress rates are just bounded accuracy minus the rising number - the end result is exactly the same, a success rate of about 66% most of the time on most checks. Roles are very much still there. They just aren't called out. Granted, tactical combat is much less of a thing in 5e, simply because 5e has combat that is so much shorter than 4e. Paths and Destinies were never really important. And, stacking bonuses were, again, simply how the engine was applied. Powers? Got those. Unified structure? Well, we got three now instead of 1, but, still mostly the same - and, after 3rd level, every class advances at exactly the same rate.

Like I said, to me, none of these things were all that important to 4e. They were how the rules were applied once you had certain assumptions - the assumption of longer combats, for example, meant that healing surges and tactical combat was more of a thing. Remove longer combats (how the rules are applied) and there's no longer a need for these. But, you still have two step recovery, at-will, encounter and daily resources, although they aren't called that, so on and so forth.

 

[Redwizard007]

...For example, I think 4e is an outdated and also superior edition of Dungeons and Dragons.

4th edition is also WHAT? That comment definitely fits a unicorn.

I mean, I liked it because I enjoy tactical combat and 4th was great at that, but superior? Not to 3rd or 5th. I'll give you 2nd, and probably 1st (which I didn't play.) I guess we all have our favorites for different reasons.

 

[Stoutstien]

If you think about it, it's pretty wild that the appearance of D&D in Stranger Things did what it did. I mean, Vin Diesel had come out as a gamer years before and it hardly moved the needle. And of course once ST got people interested in D&D as passive entertainment, CR and other streams took off and D&D benefited. But really what did WotC do in those early days to "earn" that success?

I do think more recently they have done a great job of turning interest into sales. I think it is a very much open question how much of this new cohort will be around for the long term, and (more importantly) where this generation's White Wolf will emerge from.

Aye. If you talk to local brick and mortar locations they will tell you the wave was churning before wizard even recovered from 4es stall out. They also did read the market enough to know the over saturated market of codified forms of RPGs was losing steam so they flipped back their back catalog where rules just weren't as important and simplified,
modernized and gave it enough of a nostalgic varnish to make out monkey brains feel good.

To come full circle on why they a shifting focus on Npc blocks is mostly them working in the dark trying to fine tune a model that realistically functions much differently than they anticipated.

 

[Hussar]

Yeah, I wouldn't call 4e superior to 5e. 5e has a lot of changes that I think are very good. Faster play being probably the biggest one.

4e is probably better designed overall, for the simple fact that the rules work, without any intervention from the DM, most of the time. Going back to the biggest issue for me which the new caster stat block addresses - the fact that DM's can't actually run high level casters in combat without making mistakes. This wasn't an issue in 4e very often because the monsters were FAR easier to run than they are in 5e. You have way less overhead with a given monster in 4e than you do in 5e.

So, yeah, as far as monster go, I'm going to have to give that to 4e. The fact that you can fit the rules for monster design on a business card and it still works 99.9% of the time is fantastic. Trying to design ground up monsters in 5e is far more challenging and far more prone to mistakes because the rules are nowhere near as clear.

 

[beancounter]

I've found magic missile to be a quick and easy way to finish a monster off who is low on hp but still standing.

No need to waste a high level spell in that situation.