D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

[Micah Sweet]

I don’t disagree with you on this matter, I’m just saying I don’t think it’s going to happen. Calling it a new edition is too big a risk. It’s just going to be “optional rules updates.”

How are they optional? They're rewriting the core books. Everything moving forward will reflect that. That's a new edition in all but name, and not calling it such is ridiculous.

 

[dave2008]

PF2 does evolve 4e design in some interesting ways, but I think it made some missteps as well, ...

I agree 100%

But blending the best parts of 4e, 5e, and PF2 does sound like exactly my kind of game.

Yep, I just have to many other side projects at the moment and it is really a task beyond my meager talents I think. I like making monsters, that is what I am best at.

 

[Micah Sweet]

NPC designed the same as PC is a stupid design. I don't care about your versimilitude because, as a PC, unless I look at the stat block, I'll never realize the difference. I don't really care if an enemy can do something I can't.

It is clear that a lot of people don't care about verisimilitude. Leaning in that direction is the design change i have an issue. Refusing to call it a new edition out of fear is another reason.

 

[dave2008]

How are they optional? They're rewriting the core books. Everything moving forward will reflect that. That's a new edition in all but name, and not calling it such is ridiculous.

It is optional because you can still play all future adventures and settings with the original PHB, MM, and DMG. I am pretty sure I will be able to completely ignore my the new core books if I want. Whether I do or not will depend on the improvements, IMO, they make.

 

[dave2008]

It is clear that a lot of people don't care about verisimilitude. Leaning in that direction is the design change i have an issue.

I like verisimilitude, but it is not the beginning, middle, and end for me. I don't like verisimilitude when it get in the way of the game. For me, D&D is primarily a game to have good time with my friends. If the big V gets in the way of that - that is an issue.

Refusing to call it a new edition out of fear is another reason.

Well the thing is, that is a matter of opinion. I don't see anything yet, and I will stress yet, in the previewed changes that suggest a new edition to me. I fully expect to be able to play a '14 class next to a '24 class or drop a '14 monster into a '24 combat (or vice versa). That, to me, suggests it is the same edition. Honestly, I might be interested in more changes that would warrant an edition change, but I don't see that happening. They are just doing to well with the status quo.

 

[dave2008]

Precisely. They don't care if some people don't like it, because enough people do to continue increasing their profit margins at an acceptable rate. Its just a numbers game.

I'm not saying I like it, but that is as it should be. However, I should clarify that I think they do care if people don't like it, but it depends on how many people don't like it.

Who knows, maybe they will get it wrong and people will hate the '24 changes. Clearly their data is telling them otherwise, but you never know.

I also don't mind if the game sways away from my preferred style a bit here and there. It has never catered to my groups style anyway, but we have made it work wonderfully for us and the '24 changes will not change that.

 

[Undrave]

It is clear that a lot of people don't care about verisimilitude. Leaning in that direction is the design change i have an issue. Refusing to call it a new edition out of fear is another reason.

Nothing in the game world exist until it is communicated to the players, so long as inconsistencies happen before that point, versimilitude is maintained because the PCs are not aware of any contradiction. No PC will call you out if you decide, when they ask you to describe the room, that it has a fireplace and a chest of drawers when your map originally had neither of those, because it's their first time there.

Versimilitude is a tool of the DM, nothing more.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I fully expect to be able to play a '14 class next to a '24 class or drop a '14 monster into a '24 combat (or vice versa). That, to me, suggests it is the same edition.

Hmm... I don't know. I see your point, but you could pretty much say the same thing about a 1982 class or monster compared to a 1992 one. Sure, there were changes, and quite sufficient IMO to be a new edition. But adapting one to the other (in either direction) really wasn't much work, if any. I used a lot of 1E adventures when playing 2E, for example.

So, even with a new edition, it can certainly be backwards compatible I would think. With the nature of these changes and the design philosophy that seems to accompany them, just move on to 6E IMO.

 

[dave2008]

Hmm... I don't know. I see your point, but you could pretty much say the same thing about a 1982 class or monster compared to a 1992 one. Sure, there were changes, and quite sufficient IMO to be a new edition. But adapting one to the other (in either direction) really wasn't much work, if any. I used a lot of 1E adventures when playing 2E, for example.

Well I don't think 1e and 2e where really an edition change either. They were the same games really.

So, even with a new edition, it can certainly be backwards compatible I would think. With the nature of these changes and the design philosophy that seems to accompany them, just move on to 6E IMO.

Just keep it 5th IMO. I guess you could call it 5.1 or something and treat it like a software update. Thought the don't technically call the current edition "5th Edition," so...

I think 3e, 4e, and 5e warranted new edition tags, but I don't think '24 is, as of yet, proposing enough changes to be called a new edition.

 

[Minigiant]

I agree completely, but others will argue:

Why use magic missile, a cantrip doesn't cost any spell slots and does equal or better damage (in tier 3/4)...

To which, I say:

The point was that the benefits DMwise of having 4 1st level slots for magic missile, shield, and prestidigitation plus 3 2nd level slots for 3 other 2nd level spells is overall less useful, more complicated, and more problematic than Arcane blast Xd10+x, at-will A,B,C, and 2x a day each D,E, F, G and H

The issue isn't magic missile.
The issue is magic missile on a 5e Player Character adventure based slot system put on a NPC.

If NPCs had their own spell slot chart then there would be no issue. But I estimate a good 30-40% of the fanbase would whine if NPCs got their own slot chart in 5e. Whereas 30-40% of us are just waiting for the idea or created our own.