D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

[Hussar]

There are always going to be folks that just aren't going to be great at certain things. No matter what they do. Despite years of trying, I've never been able to be even half way decent at any first person shooter. That doesn't mean we should stop making them.

There's also no problem with liking a more simplified system, even though I personally do not. But you can't expect people to advocate for a point of view they don't agree with.

But... they aren't stopping anything. It's not like there's no high level monsters. There ARE high level monsters and they are right there. So, nothing's being stopped. What is being changed, however, is slimming down things on the stat-block and making them easier to use.

I get not advocating for things you might not agree with. Fair enough. But, there does come a point where it might be helpful to instead of insulting anyone who disagrees with you (for being incompetent, incapable, stupid, poor at time management or any of the rather lengthy list of things I've been told in this thread alone) perhaps simply accepting that other people, for whatever reason, do not need or want the level of detail that you want. And then, happily enough, you have an entire line of products done by En World which directly target you!

Win-win!

 

[Hussar]

There are ways to ease the learning and usage of the starting stat blocks but it seems that no one that got problems with them wants to hear about the possible solutions.

Wasn't your solution for people to take time management training? That was you right? I'm not confusing you with someone else?

And, frankly, why would I want other solutions when I get the solution I want right here? And, since your solutions all require me to "step up" and "not be the bottom", well, sorry, I'm not interested in reaching a level of competency that you find acceptable. I'd MUCH rather that I don't have to do homework just to use some monster. IMO, monsters should be simple enough to use completely cold. I should be able to turn the page, see the monster stat block for the very first time, and run it.

THAT'S the level of complexity that I want. That's what I got in 4e.

Now, I'm not going to get that in 5e. I understand that and because I'm quite willing to compromise, I accept that I'm going to get a stat block that is going to require me to do some reading. Fair enough. But, there is a rather large difference between a stat block that has a half dozen spells on it and a stat block that has over two dozen spells listed. The latter is pointless to me, because there is just zero chance I will ever use a monster that complicated. It might as well not even exist as far as I'm concerned.

6-8 different effects is about the upper limit for my tolerance of a stat-block. Anything more than that makes my eyes glaze over and reach for the Monster Manual to pick a different monster. Which has meant that in 10 years of gaming we've almost never faced NPC casters. Certainly nothing over about 5th level. It's just 100% not worth the effort.

 

[Helldritch]

Wasn't your solution for people to take time management training? That was you right? I'm not confusing you with someone else?

And, frankly, why would I want other solutions when I get the solution I want right here? And, since your solutions all require me to "step up" and "not be the bottom", well, sorry, I'm not interested in reaching a level of competency that you find acceptable. I'd MUCH rather that I don't have to do homework just to use some monster. IMO, monsters should be simple enough to use completely cold. I should be able to turn the page, see the monster stat block for the very first time, and run it.

THAT'S the level of complexity that I want. That's what I got in 4e.

Now, I'm not going to get that in 5e. I understand that and because I'm quite willing to compromise, I accept that I'm going to get a stat block that is going to require me to do some reading. Fair enough. But, there is a rather large difference between a stat block that has a half dozen spells on it and a stat block that has over two dozen spells listed. The latter is pointless to me, because there is just zero chance I will ever use a monster that complicated. It might as well not even exist as far as I'm concerned.

6-8 different effects is about the upper limit for my tolerance of a stat-block. Anything more than that makes my eyes glaze over and reach for the Monster Manual to pick a different monster. Which has meant that in 10 years of gaming we've almost never faced NPC casters. Certainly nothing over about 5th level. It's just 100% not worth the effort.

It was one but not the only one. Of course you remember only the one that you thought was me telling you (actually an other poster complaining about not having time) what you did not want to hear. Underlining the main spells you, as a DM are going to actually use against your players is but one other solutions. But they all involve some prep. Is what bugs you? That as a DM you have to prep a bit for a game?

And again, these stat blocks were used in 4ed and there were people complaining that high level monsters were to hard to handle in numbers... And I was defending these same stat block back then.

Once more my main grippe with these stat blocks is not the block themselves. But the fact the old books are now obsolete. Were they introduced in an updates edition of 5ed, I would have welcomed them. Again, I would have welcome them If they had been part of a 5.5ed. I never was a big fan of changes in mid editions whatever the game system was. I see this way of acting as a cash grab to force people to buy the next edition simply because it will update your old books to the new edition.

Current edition uses spell slots. They should keep using spell slots. Come 5.5 and they change them to the new format? Good, I'll buy 5.5 and use and learn (again) the new way. But those who want to stick with 5ed will not have been force to use something they did not want to buy for. Introducing them before a new edition simply lacks cohesion, courage and for me shows that WotC is acting in bad faith. But that is my opinion, you do not have to share it.

 

[Parmandur]

But those who want to stick with 5ed will not have been force to use something they did not want to buy for.

The MM is still on sale. Nobody is being forced to do anything just because new options are evolving.

 

[Maxperson]

The MM is still on sale. Nobody is being forced to do anything just because new options are evolving.

Sure. We have the option of just stagnating and never getting anything new. That's not much of an option.

 

[Minigiant]

Good point. I guess they'll just have to keep spellcasting the same for both, to avoid confusion.

Yeh,but it would be more that just spellcasting. It would be all the other class and subclass feature.

Because if you don't need to include the other class features in their PHB forms, then you don't need to include PHB spell casting slots either.

Have fun with your druid and the Entirety of Wild Shape's write-up in the NPC druid stat block.

Again, an NPC hunter RANGER is a Hunter Ranger subclass and would have those abilities. Or you can just call it a Mercenary Tracker or something. You don't need 8 variations of the same sort of NPC, so it's not hard to come up with synonyms. If you want it to be the NPC version of an actual subclass, you call it the subclass name and give it subclass abilities, including spells if any.

If you do the Hunter Ranger NPC, by that logic you need to include all 8 ranger class features.

 

[Helldritch]

The MM is still on sale. Nobody is being forced to do anything just because new options are evolving.

Of course, old stocks must be sold.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeh,but it would be more that just spellcasting. It would be all the other class and subclass feature.

Because if you don't need to include the other class features in their PHB forms, then you don't need to include PHB spell casting slots either.

Have fun with your druid and the Entirety of Wild Shape's write-up in the NPC druid stat block.


If you do the Hunter Ranger NPC, by that logic you need to include all 8 ranger class features.

The issue in this case is spellcasting, but I would be fine with an abbreviated version of other class features too. The new Tal'Dorai sourcebook did exactly that for Vox Machina, and I thought it was great!

Thank goodness that book came out before WotC created the new "standard".

 

[Micah Sweet]

On a related note, I'd like to congratulate everyone on finding a new way to fight the 4e edition war. The old one was getting a bit stale.

 

[Minigiant]

The issue in this case is spellcasting, but I would be fine with an abbreviated version of other class features too. The new Tal'Dorai sourcebook did exactly that for Vox Machina, and I thought it was great!

Thank goodness that book came out before WotC created the new "standard".

Abbreviated Spellcasting: not okay
Abbreviated Favored Enemy and Wild Shape: okay

Rangers and druids never catching breaks.