D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

[Vaalingrade]

It's interesting. I had a discussion with my group's DM this past week over the merits of running 2E vs something like Castles and Crusades. His response was that he likes the little bit of extra difficulty in the 2E system, for example, like sometimes having to roll low and other times roll high, because he considers it a filter of sorts: it chases away people not smart or mentally agile enough to handle playing in that sort of game. And after playing in a couple of other different groups with some players who almost literally couldn't add the numbers on three dice, I'm beginning to think he may be onto something.

The gate must be kept! The game must be an exclusive affair that necessarily dies on the vine due to lack of interest.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Or a system where these variables don't explodicate the challenge of a given encounter?

So a system where character abilities, monster abilities, tactical situation and player skill have no effect one the outcome?

Sounds slightly less interesting than Noughts and Crosses.

 

[Vaalingrade]

So a system where character abilities, monster abilities, tactical situation and player skill have no effect one the outcome?

Yes. I said 'no effect'.

No. Of course not.

But you can remove the magic and monster 'I win' buttons and have some parity between classes. Good tactics absolutely should make the encounter easier and that's the reward for doing so.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

That, the bolded part, is not what CR is based on. The encounter guidelines are geared around this assumption when determining encounter strength. However, the 6-8 is note required, it just the assumption the threat levels used in the guidelines use. It is easy enough to take the daily XP budget and break it down differently. You can break that budget into 1 or 2 encounters if you wanted to. I actually hope the '24 DMG goes into this idea into a bit more depth.

Ok... you think it is easy enough. I just ignore the whole thing, because it is more trouble than worth it. The whole system needs an overhaul.
Keep CR as a measurment of individual power, but do away with the whole daily XP budget. That is terribly useless and if you would follow it, theb you are 0 to 20 in a few adventuring weeks. It just makes no sense. And it does not help me as a DM in any form.

 

[Jmarso]

The gate must be kept! The game must be an exclusive affair that necessarily dies on the vine due to lack of interest.

Hasn't happened yet for him. Games are consistently well attended, usually by 30+ year old players from various professional backgrounds, genders, and orientations. Everyone gets along, has an adult sense of humor (no perpetually offended or triggered snowflakes), and everyone is a solid critical thinker. I've been playing in this guy's games for close to a year now, and it's been a far more pleasant and rewarding experience than any of the 5E groups I've tried. If that is an example of gatekeeping at work, then it's working for him.

 

[Vaalingrade]

(no perpetually offended or triggered snowflakes)

Well there's a big heaping spoonful of nope.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But you can remove the magic and monster 'I win' buttons.

Not without neutering class abilities and monster abilities. Fire elementals? They can't be immune to fire because it's an "I win button" against a party with all fire damage. AoE Stun? Can't have that, it's an "I win button" against parties that are unfortunately positioned and roll badly on their saves. etc etc etc.

and have some parity between classes.

Can a fighter ever have a party with a wizard against monsters that are immune to weapons? What about monsters that are immune to fire?

There only way to achieve parity in all situations is to either have no monster special abilities at all, or to have no player special abilities at all.

Good tactics absolutely should make the encounter easier and that's the reward for doing so.

It becomes a punishment if the reward for being good at the game is everything is easy.

 

[Jmarso]

Well there's a big heaping spoonful of nope.

Well, the adulting is always best left to adults.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Or a system where these variables don't explodicate the challenge of a given encounter?

Like maybe a system with consistent rules instead of 'ask your DM' with little to no help for the DM?

By "system" do you mean the CR system, or D&D itself.

Personally I wouldn't want to play a game where all those variables don't have a huge impact on encounter challenge.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Well, the adulting is always best left to adults.

Namecalling: The Adult Thing To Do.