Level Up (A5E) Spells that would ruin the world

[TYP]

See, I came from TSR-era D&D; my mind-set has remained in the 90s. I've always assumed that non-adventuring casters gain xp via going about their professional business (research, church duties, etc) and still earn levels, but at a much slower rate.

I knew it! When I read your reply, I almost said something about recognizing someone else who played AD&D. When they pulled so many of the spell limitations, like the components, it let loose a magical plague on the land. But I guess that's what you expect from wizards.

 

[Faolyn]

I knew it! When I read your reply, I almost said something about recognizing someone else who played AD&D. When they pulled so many of the spell limitations, like the components, it let loose a magical plague on the land. But I guess that's what you expect from wizards.

The limitations did help, but not because of components. Components that actually cost money are still in the game, even if the other types are handwaved. Probably the biggest limitations that were removed is the maximum number of spells that could be learned (written into your spellbook) and the chance to learn spells. While I don't think that there should be a maximum number of spells you can ever know, since that's kind of unfun and people put out new spells all the time, I kind of miss the chance to learn spell.

It wouldn't be too hard to bring back, either. Arcana check with a DC of X + the spell's level, possibly with advantage if its in a school of magic you're specialized in, possibly with disadvantage if it's an "opposing" school. Where X depends on how easy you want it to learn a new spell. And then require every wizard character to pick a school, or grouping of minor schools, to specialize in and a school or grouping of minor schools to be opposed.

I haven't actually instituted this rule yet, but if I ever get to do an "old school" game where I only have 1 or 2 spellcasting PC classes, I might--and I actually think that would be much easier to do in LU than in o5e, since Rangers and Adepts are almost entirely nonmagical and Marshalls and Savants are available as classes.

But I think what really caused the "magical plague," as you say, is something that started happening almost right away: (1) "useful" magic items that mimic everyday objects and thus begin to be seen as something that of course everyone (or at least every town) should have; (2) fairly common magic items, because +1 swords and the like were put in every adventure and module or even in every treasure hoard; and (3) the magic shop as a standard thing. Honestly, the plague started when Dragon Magazine started having the Bazzare of the Bizarre columns (and maybe before), and that was in 1e.

 

[Stalker0]

One thing I also miss from a narrative element is the idea that in order to cast a 5th level spell you need a minimum of 15 in your casting stat. While it rarely affected PCs, it was a solid way to curb high level spells in world building. Bottom line, when you combine the idea that not only are you a high level character (rare), and a spellcaster (rarer still), AND you happen to be a prodigy in that casting stat (super rare).... realistic those high level spells really do become exceedingly rare for a very understanding reason.


Now I will say, out of the spells I mentioned, most of the them are easily to narratively handwave. "why aren't all wizard's fabricating everything" "Oh...um....guild rules, mob enforcers, government laws...um yada yada lets move on".

The only one of those spells I have seen true concern with in game is speak with dead. I'm not a fan that LU made the spell even stronger than it already was, that spell is crazy good when you have dedicated and creative players. I basically just had to have the talk with my players that, "yes I know you can do that with the spell and cast it day after day after day...but we are just not going to do that in this game"

 

[Micah Sweet]

The limitations did help, but not because of components. Components that actually cost money are still in the game, even if the other types are handwaved. Probably the biggest limitations that were removed is the maximum number of spells that could be learned (written into your spellbook) and the chance to learn spells. While I don't think that there should be a maximum number of spells you can ever know, since that's kind of unfun and people put out new spells all the time, I kind of miss the chance to learn spell.

It wouldn't be too hard to bring back, either. Arcana check with a DC of X + the spell's level, possibly with advantage if its in a school of magic you're specialized in, possibly with disadvantage if it's an "opposing" school. Where X depends on how easy you want it to learn a new spell. And then require every wizard character to pick a school, or grouping of minor schools, to specialize in and a school or grouping of minor schools to be opposed.

I haven't actually instituted this rule yet, but if I ever get to do an "old school" game where I only have 1 or 2 spellcasting PC classes, I might--and I actually think that would be much easier to do in LU than in o5e, since Rangers and Adepts are almost entirely nonmagical and Marshalls and Savants are available as classes.

But I think what really caused the "magical plague," as you say, is something that started happening almost right away: (1) "useful" magic items that mimic everyday objects and thus begin to be seen as something that of course everyone (or at least every town) should have; (2) fairly common magic items, because +1 swords and the like were put in every adventure and module or even in every treasure hoard; and (3) the magic shop as a standard thing. Honestly, the plague started when Dragon Magazine started having the Bazzare of the Bizarre columns (and maybe before), and that was in 1e.

But if it wasn't for Bazaar of the Bizarre, we wouldn't have the Chainsword (it was in issue# 132).

 

[Steampunkette]

Prestidigitation.

The cleaning industry would -dissipate-. And I can't really express to you how huge the cleaning industry really is. "You headed for surgery, Doc? BAM! You're Sterile. No! Not that way. Well maybe, I mean it is Magic Radiation." Disease would plummet, too. Infections would drop to near 0 whether at home or in a hospital. Depending on whether it "Moves" or "Destroys" the stuff being cleaned off the other thing could also mean you can pop the hood of your car, snap your fingers, and all your lines and injectors and plugs are cleaned flawlessly. Oil? Clean and new.

No more Vacuum Cleaners, no more Dishwashers, no more body wash or shampoo. No more pore scrubs and acne from clogged pores or overactive bacteria build up.

Plus 6 second hair-dye, makeup, and hair style. Why brush your hair when you can just "Move it" perfectly straight?

Spices? Bam. Food is perfectly seasoned.

Can't remember a song? You can perfectly reproduce the musical notes that start it for everyone around you to hear instead of tone-deafingly caterwauling off-key to try and communicate it. And a skilled musician? Could perform an entire symphony or stage-show in 6 second segments.

And then there's its use in Arson. Because you can start a campfire, light a candle, or a torch.

And then there's Mending.

On it's own, it would kill the Fashion Industry's "Mass produce low quality clothing" idea 'cause people would just repair what they like with a 6 second finger snap. You'd still get seasonal fashions, but when you can bring retro back in a heartbeat? Woof. You'd be able to hit a thrift shop and find old used things and repair them with the snap of your fingers.

Buy a new car. Drive it. As you get out of the car, cast Mending. Repair all the miniscule wear and tear you've inflicted on it. Barring a catastrophic fault (Like a faulty seal or a mineral inclusion in steel) your car never needs to go to a Dealer or Mechanic, ever again. Dinged the fender? Mending. Hail cracked the windshield? Mending. Ex keyed your car? Mending.

Home repairs? HAH! mending on the squeaky board and the crack in the settling foundation. Leaky faucet? Not anymore! Venetian blinds busted? Repaired.

Cracked the screen on your cell phone? No you didn't. -Every- time you wanna upgrade to a new phone you can hand your provider a mint condition telephone for the maximum value on trade-in. Same with cars.

And for older vehicles? A mechanic can take it apart and cast mending on each individual component to make a used car like new.

And for a third spell, a first level spell? Cure Wounds.

You fall and hurt your back? Cure wounds. Your kid scrapes her knee? Cure wounds. Drunk driver side-swiped your car and your spouse is dying in your arms? Cure wounds. Mass shooter? Cure wounds. Broke your arm? Road Rash on your Face? Didn't check the circuit breaker was off before replacing a wire? Anything that isn't -instantly- fatal whether malicious or accidental: CURE WOUNDS.

Warfare? Cop afraid for his safety? Monster drives into a protest and runs people over? Cure Wounds. Almost everyone gets to go home unless it's a mafia style execution. And even then: People survive getting shot in the head, at the very least for a short time if not for the rest of their natural lives like Malala Yousafzai or Anatoli Bugorski.

Why did I pick two cantrips and a 1st level spell?

Easy. We're all Human and A5e is backward compatible. Take Variant Human and apply it to all humanity through Schooling. Everyone gets the Mystic Adept: Bard feat before they hit level 1 and/or college. We all get Prestidigitation, Mending, and Cure Wounds in place of Home Ec or Shop or some equivalent class.

-That- would "Break the World".

Cleaning Industry completely changed now that doctors, nurses, patients, anyone can clean a hospital room by wiggling their fingers. And outside of Disease and certain types of Surgery we'd never need to go to the hospital 'cause you could Cure Wounds for 1d8+Charisma once per day. Even 1 point is enough to stabilize anyone no matter how horrifically mangled they might be. And mending fixes everything in your environment a little bit, just enough to keep it going.

Our economy would need a -serious- overhaul.

 

[Faolyn]

The only one of those spells I have seen true concern with in game is speak with dead. I'm not a fan that LU made the spell even stronger than it already was, that spell is crazy good when you have dedicated and creative players. I basically just had to have the talk with my players that, "yes I know you can do that with the spell and cast it day after day after day...but we are just not going to do that in this game"

I was in a game that used GURPS to run a Pathfinder adventure path. At one point, we had to get a magic item that was being held in an extradimensional bank or something. The adventure assumed that we would raid the bank, defeat the golem guards and all the traps, and steal the item. Instead, we located the original owner's remains, I cast Summon Spirit, which is the GURPS equivalent of speak with dead, and--with a lawyer present--got permission to use the item for the duration of the crisis. So the bank had to honor it and we got the item.

The GM was not expecting that.

 

[TYP]

While I don't think that there should be a maximum number of spells you can ever know, since that's kind of unfun and people put out new spells all the time, I kind of miss the chance to learn spell.

I also miss that, and should bring it back in my next proper campaign. I also think you can limit the number of spells a wizard has on hand without limiting the total known. I'm thinking of the spell books in Pillars of Eternity, and having players keep their spells in actual books, with a limit to the number of spells in a book, and needing more powerful and expensive books for higher level spells. So a wizard would have to choose which books to bring with them and which to keep in their library. Of course they can put them all in a bag of holding, but oof, if a monster gets their hands on it ...

Maybe too much bookkeeping for some, but an idea.

But I think what really caused the "magical plague," as you say, is something that started happening almost right away: (1) "useful" magic items that mimic everyday objects and thus begin to be seen as something that of course everyone (or at least every town) should have; (2) fairly common magic items, because +1 swords and the like were put in every adventure and module or even in every treasure hoard; and (3) the magic shop as a standard thing. Honestly, the plague started when Dragon Magazine started having the Bazzare of the Bizarre columns (and maybe before), and that was in 1e.

That wasn't my experience, but I started AD&D in the early nineties with Dark Sun of all things, so my experience is not the norm. I agree about the prevalence of magical items, and another tweak that I think could balance that out is removing magical item stores and just having crafters. Especially with the ingredients for the magical items prominently featured in the list, it's an easy way to make the party work for and earn magical gear.

I also remember a thing from Dragon years ago about how to balance magic items with low level parties, which was to give them charges. So your +1 longsword would be a regular sword until you activated it, then it would have that +1 enchantment for 10 rounds or whatever.

The only one of those spells I have seen true concern with in game is speak with dead. I'm not a fan that LU made the spell even stronger than it already was, that spell is crazy good when you have dedicated and creative players. I basically just had to have the talk with my players that, "yes I know you can do that with the spell and cast it day after day after day...but we are just not going to do that in this game"

I haven't run into that one yet, but when I do, I think some corpses will not be inclined to be cooperative as narratively necessary.

-That- would "Break the World".

Yes, to everything you said. It's why I think the cantrips cast at will is terrible. Just waiting to find players who agree.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I also miss that, and should bring it back in my next proper campaign. I also think you can limit the number of spells a wizard has on hand without limiting the total known. I'm thinking of the spell books in Pillars of Eternity, and having players keep their spells in actual books, with a limit to the number of spells in a book, and needing more powerful and expensive books for higher level spells. So a wizard would have to choose which books to bring with them and which to keep in their library. Of course they can put them all in a bag of holding, but oof, if a monster gets their hands on it ...

Maybe too much bookkeeping for some, but an idea.


That wasn't my experience, but I started AD&D in the early nineties with Dark Sun of all things, so my experience is not the norm. I agree about the prevalence of magical items, and another tweak that I think could balance that out is removing magical item stores and just having crafters. Especially with the ingredients for the magical items prominently featured in the list, it's an easy way to make the party work for and earn magical gear.

I also remember a thing from Dragon years ago about how to balance magic items with low level parties, which was to give them charges. So your +1 longsword would be a regular sword until you activated it, then it would have that +1 enchantment for 10 rounds or whatever.


I haven't run into that one yet, but when I do, I think some corpses will not be inclined to be cooperative as narratively necessary.


Yes, to everything you said. It's why I think the cantrips cast at will is terrible. Just waiting to find players who agree.

I'm not really comfortable with at-will cantrips either. But, it is such a boon to PC power that it is very hard for players to give up.

 

[ruemere]

The general rules for making D&D magic viable in a wide world would be:

• the efficiency of magic effect is not higher than that of a mundane counterpart.
• the fabrication (creation, transport, assembly, construction) does not yield products superior in terms of quality or quantity.

There are a few ways to ensure this:

• magic use requires unique talent
• magically created items possess a trait that makes them unsuitable for everyday use
• variant to the above: magically created items are countered or invalidated by widely available means (for example, a holy bell sound causes magic items to crumble)
• production level output requires production levels of a limited resource (for example, limit mama in the area so that from tenth casting onwards in the area, the effect is decreased by a factor of 50%,).

 

[Imaculata]

A good friend of mine ran a campaign around a kingdom where wishing was forbidden. Because every time someone uttered a wish, it automatically came true. The wish spell is bad enough as it is. But imagine living in a world where you don't even need to cast the spell. Anyone who was having a bad day, or disliked the current ruler, could sow utter chaos. And that is exactly what happened in his campaign. It was absolute madness, but a very neat concept to explore as well. How do you stop people from completely destroying the economy, or transforming the current ruler into something unpleasant?