DTRPG Says 'Don't criticize us or we'll ban you'

[Morrus]

Strictly speaking, I've noted before that I don't think they are a monopoly, but rather have monopoly power, which is different (e.g. you don't need to control 100% of a market to have a massive influence over it). Other outlets certainly exist, but when publishers reach something like 85% of their customers via that one platform (to use a number that one publisher estimated), that makes the presence of alternative venues a lot less important in reality than they might otherwise look on paper.

All your posts in this thread are based on this premise. Unfortunately, you're mistaken; DTRPG doesn't have close to 85% of the market in terms of dollar value. Kickstarter does. You've got the wrong company.

Now if Kickstarter kicks you off their platform, you've got real problems.

 

[Baron Opal II]

I disagree. I think that they do have a duty to provide that service insofar as it means not denying it based purely on not liking someone's beliefs.

On the contrary, it gives them monopoly power, which in turn imposes a greater responsibility on them to utilize that power in a manner that benefits more than just themselves.

When they're the only cost-effective way for your business to exist, it becomes true in that context, and so is true here.

No- no one is entitled to perform business in a certain manner through a certain means. Welcome to capitalism.

If people don't like DTRPG there is Indie Press Revolution, Tabletop Library, Etsy, Open Gaming Store, The Indie RPGs Un-Store, developing your own website, or getting a bunch of friends together with some money and starting your own business. DTRPG may be the easiest or most convenient resource, but they are by far not the only one. Expend some marketing effort.

They are not a monopoly by any definition.

 

[Alzrius]

All your posts in this thread are based on this premise. Unfortunately, you're mistaken; DTRPG doesn't have close to 85% of the market in terms of dollar value. Kickstarter does.

In terms of raw dollar value, I have no doubt. But I meant only with regard to other digital storefronts; Kickstarter doesn't have a listing of products that I can browse through and purchase at my leisure, redownload later, or otherwise keep in "stock" (insofar as that can be used with regard to digital products). Compared to other venues that do have such a setup, are you saying that DTRPG isn't far and away bigger than, say, Paizo or the OpenGamingStore?

 

[Alzrius]

No- no one is entitled to perform business in a certain manner through a certain means. Welcome to capitalism.

I disagree, I think that when a singular business entity comes to control access to an overwhelming percentage of the market, simply because no other such entity can reach most of that market, that does impose a responsibility on them to stop acting purely in their own self-interest.

If people don't like DTRPG there is Indie Press Revolution, Tabletop Library, Etsy, Open Gaming Store, The Indie RPGs Un-Store, developing your own website, or getting a bunch of friends together with some money and starting your own business. DTRPG may be the easiest or most convenient resource, but they are by far not the only one. Expend some marketing effort.

They are not a monopoly by any definition.

Again, you don't need to be a monopoly to have monopoly power. If we go by the idea that "anyone who starts a storefront can compete," then there are no monopolies at all, ever, because anyone can potentially go into business against a much larger company. That's a nice theory, but it's not very useful in terms of reality.

 

[Sacrosanct]

No- no one is entitled to perform business in a certain manner through a certain means. Welcome to capitalism.

If people don't like DTRPG there is Indie Press Revolution, Tabletop Library, Etsy, Open Gaming Store, The Indie RPGs Un-Store, developing your own website, or getting a bunch of friends together with some money and starting your own business. DTRPG may be the easiest or most convenient resource, but they are by far not the only one. Expend some marketing effort.

They are not a monopoly by any definition.

Not to mention Amazon...It's very easy to host digital and POD files at Amazon.

 

[Morrus]

In terms of raw dollar value, I have no doubt. But I meant only with regard to other digital storefronts; Kickstarter doesn't have a listing of products that I can browse through and purchase at my leisure, redownload later, or otherwise keep in "stock" (insofar as that can be used with regard to digital products). Compared to other venues that do have such a setup, are you saying that DTRPG isn't far and away bigger than, say, Paizo or the OpenGamingStore?

Sure. And compared to other RPG companies with red logos based out of Southampton run by somebody whose name begins with an R, EN Publishing’s storefront has 85% of the market. You can define the market any way you want but any definition which excludes Kickstarter is basically nonsense. DTRPG doesn’t have the dominant clout you claim it has.

Now, if it did, I actually agree that those with monopolistic power over the market have an ethical obligation beyond their own business interests. But DTRPG isn’t the company in that position right now.

 

[Alzrius]

Sure. And compared to other RPG companies with red logos based out of Southampton run by somebody whose name begins with an R, EN Publishing’s storefront has 85% of the market. You can define the market any way you want but any definition which excludes Kickstarter is basically nonsense. DTRPG doesn’t have the dominant clout you claim it has.

Again, that's true if you look at where the bulk of the money comes from, but that's comparing short-term preorders (which is what Kickstarter offers) to pay-for-download of "in-stock" digital products. I have no doubt that you made most of your money for Level Up off of Kickstarter when you were producing it; but if I wanted to buy it off of Kickstarter right now, could I? Not to mention that most publishers can't, and don't, use Kickstarter for the majority of their products (not even close, really), and so Kickstarter isn't a factor for them the way DTRPG is.

Kickstarter isn't a storefront, in other words, which is what's being discussed in this thread. You can say that cuts out most of the money involved, and that's not wrong, but that's a different revenue stream (i.e. preorders versus immediate retail fulfillment).

Now, if it did, I actually agree that those with monopolistic power over the market have an ethical obligation beyond their own business interests. But DTRPG isn’t the company in that position right now.

I think it's important to reiterate that the market that's being discussed here is with regard to perpetual retail sale, rather than a limited period of preorders. You don't shop for stuff on Kickstarter the way you do on DTRPG, Amazon, Paizo, etc., and the degree to which Kickstarter necessarily competes with those venues is arguable.

That said, I'm glad there's someone else agreeing that companies with a large degree of power over a market assume an obligation to act beyond what's best for them.

 

[Irlo]

I disagree, I think that when a singular business entity comes to control access to an overwhelming percentage of the market, simply because no other such entity can reach most of that market, that does impose a responsibility on them to stop acting purely in their own self-interest.

You seem to be arguing that DTRPG must act in the interest of other businesses which are themselves acting against DTRPG’s interest.

 

[Alzrius]

You seem to be arguing that DRRPG must act in the interest of other businesses which are themselves acting against DTRPG’s interest.

When the disparity between the two is so vast, to the point where those "other businesses" have (at best) an extremely limited ability to adversely affect DTRPG's interests, that characterization loses a lot of its implications.

 

[Morrus]

Again, that's true if you look at where the bulk of the money comes from, but that's comparing short-term preorders (which is what Kickstarter offers) to pay-for-download of "in-stock" digital products. I have no doubt that you made most of your money for Level Up off of Kickstarter when you were producing it; but if I wanted to buy it off of Kickstarter right now, could I? Not to mention that most publishers can't, and don't, use Kickstarter for the majority of their products (not even close, really), and so Kickstarter isn't a factor for them the way DTRPG is.

Kickstarter isn't a storefront, in other words, which is what's being discussed in this thread. You can say that cuts out most of the money involved, and that's not wrong, but that's a different revenue stream (i.e. preorders versus immediate retail fulfillment).

I think it's important to reiterate that the market that's being discussed here is with regard to perpetual retail sale, rather than a limited period of preorders. You don't shop for stuff on Kickstarter the way you do on DTRPG, Amazon, Paizo, etc., and the degree to which Kickstarter necessarily competes with those venues is arguable.

That said, I'm glad there's someone else agreeing that companies with a large degree of power over a market assume an obligation to act beyond what's best for them.

Eh. That non-true Scotsman! We sell much more on our own site than on DTRPG. You’re not talking from a position of data. If you want to maintain that DTRPG has monopoly power over the market, you do that. But I’ll reiterate one last time, from the position of a publisher who actually sells into the market, that it doesn’t have, for the benefit of those reading. Nobody has, but the most dominant player is Kickstarter.