D&D 5E Toll the Chest

[iserith]

How would the PC know that the chest had to make a save? Making the save and not having to make a save could, and probably would in this case easily have the same appearance.

It doesn't matter to me why a player has their character do anything. The character doesn't have to know the chest is a mimic to attack it. My question was is if anyone cares if the players have the characters attack the chest because the DM made a saving throw at all.

 

[Maxperson]

Because the threat is a mimic, and False Appearance prevents them from gaining awareness of a mimic.

No it doesn't. It only prevents gaining awareness via sight alone. You can gain awareness in a variety of other ways just fine.

But that would apply to everything. Even the dungeon walls could potentially be a threat, and no one would ever be surprised.

That's why it has to be unnoticed(not seen) per RAW. You can't notice the threat in order for the potential threat to surprise you.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm not sure if it's a flaw in the system- I had a "fun" experience when I allowed people to Ready outside of combat. First, the players were constantly trying to use it to bypass initiative to get first strikes.

Then I started having enemies ready to attack the players. It turned into this weird ready action metagame that favored players who were a little better at selecting triggers than others.

So I finally had to say "ok, that's enough of that".

Ready has to have specificity. "I am attacked" is too vague in my opinion. You have to be ready for, "If the orc by the door attacks me..." If a player can figure out exactly what is going to attack, where it is, and what it's going to do before ever seeing it, I'd let it happen.

 

[Maxperson]

It doesn't matter to me why a player has their character do anything. The character doesn't have to know the chest is a mimic to attack it. My question was is if anyone cares if the players have the characters attack the chest because the DM made a saving throw at all.

I would, but you probably already guessed that. We've been on opposite sides of the metagaming discussion enough times.

 

[Hriston]

No it doesn't. It only prevents gaining awareness via sight alone. You can gain awareness in a variety of other ways just fine.

Which is what you asked about. You asked about "the party seeing the Mimic posing as a chest".

That's why it has to be unnoticed(not seen) per RAW. You can't notice the threat in order for the potential threat to surprise you.

But if you notice a threat, you're not surprised.

 

[Maxperson]

Which is what you asked about. You asked about "the party seeing the Mimic posing as a chest".

The party does see the Mimic posing as a chest and notices the threat. The party just doesn't know it's a Mimic.

But if you notice a threat, you're not surprised.

And they do. They can see the chest. The threat has been noticed, even if they don't know it's a Mimic.

 

[Hriston]

The party does see the Mimic posing as a chest and notices the threat. The party just doesn't know it's a Mimic.

No, the threat is a mimic, and they don't notice a mimic.

And they do. They can see the chest. The threat has been noticed, even if they don't know it's a Mimic.

Right. Like I said, if you do it that way, no one is ever surprised because they always notice a threat.

 

[Maxperson]

No, the threat is a mimic, and they don't notice a mimic.

So if the party sees an ogre, but fails to notice that it's an Ogre Magi, they fail to notice the threat because they don't know what it is?

That's not how RAW works. If you see it and it's a potential threat, you've noticed the threat. There is no RAW requirement to know what it is.

Right. Like I said, if you do it that way, no one is ever surprised because they always notice a threat.

Not if they don't see it prior to determining surprise.

 

[Hriston]

So if the party sees an ogre, but fails to notice that it's an Ogre Magi, they fail to notice the threat because they don't know what it is?

No.

That's not how RAW works. If you see it and it's a potential threat, you've noticed the threat. There is no RAW requirement to know what it is.

I didn't say there was.

Not if they don't see it prior to determining surprise.

What about all the other non-hidden things they do see, like walls and chests and things? Those are potential threats too.

 

[Maxperson]

No.


I didn't say there was.

If there's no RAW requirement to know what the thing they are looking at is, then looking at a Mimic as a chest, which they know is a potential danger, is noticing a threat. End of story.

What about all the other non-hidden things they do see, like walls and chests and things? Those are potential threats too.

Okay.

By RAW those would not be able to surprise a party, since they are noticed. However, with the Mimic's perfect imitation, if the party wasn't suspicious of the chest, I would make a ruling that it could surprise them. If they were suspicious of the chest in any way(trap, Mimic, whatever), then it can't surprise them since it is by RAW a noticed threat and RAW does not allow surprise under those circumstances.