How Do You Stop TPKs/Killer GM Habits?

[MichaelSomething]

We did the Pathfinder Beginner Box, and I didn't tone it down. They did fine - had only one scary fight. But I guess something changed between using the pregens in that adventure and starting a "real Adventure Path" with their own characters.
I need to work on assessing what caused other TPKs with other groups in other systems and see if it's all similar reasons.

Still think you should stream/record your games. Twitch chat will point out the mistakes you or your players are making instantly.

 

[MGibster]

I'm known as a killer GM, and even I rarely ever have a TPK. If you frequently experience TPKs, it's likely because your encounters are too tough. Just dial it back a little and see how the group does. On the flip side, on occasion I've seen encounters that were more difficult than they should have been because the players didn't use all the resources available to them. So maybe that's contributing to the problem.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I'm known as a killer GM, and even I rarely ever have a TPK. If you frequently experience TPKs, it's likely because your encounters are too tough. Just dial it back a little and see how the group does. On the flip side, on occasion I've seen encounters that were more difficult than they should have been because the players didn't use all the resources available to them. So maybe that's contributing to the problem.

Or the encounters have monsters that are swingy in damage output. The fight you described and retested seems like that, considering they dropped the champion in one round. Dropped the rogue to point he was one save from death. You admitted to an unusual run of criticals.

 

[Imaculata]

I use level appropriate encounters, and sometimes slightly above level appropriate, based on the strength of the party.

I use foreshadowing, so my players can judge what they're up against, and how to respond.

I set up encounters in a way that allows for multiple strategies.

I purposefully insert elements into my encounters that allow my players to even the playing field. Such as a chandelier that can be dropped on monsters, a nearby cannon that can be put into action, a boiler that can be detonated, a gate that can be dropped.

I design my encounters so that there are options to take cover, or to reach higher ground. Or alternate routes to outflank enemies.

I don't hold any punches as soon as my players are level 3+. I never fudge.

I've never had a TPK.

 

[MGibster]

Or the encounters have monsters that are swingy in damage output. The fight you described and retested seems like that, considering they dropped the champion in one round. Dropped the rogue to point he was one save from death. You admitted to an unusual run of criticals.

That's another reason. While running a game of Deadlands (Savage Worlds), I almost had a TPK because my dice were so hot. I was rolling high to hit the PCs and then rolling incredibly well for damage, and by the end of the fight only one PC was left standing and they had used almost all of their resources just to survive. But that was a fluke and doesn't happen with such regularity.

 

[prabe]

That's another reason. While running a game of Deadlands (Savage Worlds), I almost had a TPK because my dice were so hot. I was rolling high to hit the PCs and then rolling incredibly well for damage, and by the end of the fight only one PC was left standing and they had used almost all of their resources just to survive. But that was a fluke and doesn't happen with such regularity.

Part of my ongoing experience as a GM is that my dice luck tends to be both bad and shockingly streaky. Most of the time, what I'm running tends to be derpy and incompetent ... then my dice decide THE STARS ARE RIGHT AND ALL THE PCS MUST DIE NOW.

 

[Retreater]

So I tried a second simulation of the combat - this time with carbon copies of the actual characters the players used. I handedly defeated the encounter in a little over 4 turns. Half the party (the sorcerer and rogue) were unscathed in the battle. The champion did drop at one point, but was quickly healed and returned to the fight. All-in-all, the cleric spent two 1st level spells and his focus spell, and the sorcerer spent one 1st level spell and his focus spell. No one needed to use a Hero Point.
I did this using the same basic tactics that the used. The only differences were that the rogue never stayed next to an enemy (after making his strike, he always backed away) and the cleric decided to step forward and engage the enemies earlier in the combat, which helped take some attention away from the champion.
Other than that, the enemies didn't win initiative over the entire party in this simulation, and I don't recall them landing a single critical hit. So I don't know if the dice were that "on fire" for me when I GMed last week - but is that enough to make me a Killer GM every 3 or so sessions?
And this wasn't a case of the party "barely" won - it was a resounding victory. It doesn't seem like in a system like Pathfinder 2e (or even D&D 5e) that this would be within the margins of error.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

So I tried a second simulation of the combat - this time with carbon copies of the actual characters the players used. I handedly defeated the encounter in a little over 4 turns. Half the party (the sorcerer and rogue) were unscathed in the battle. The champion did drop at one point, but was quickly healed and returned to the fight. All-in-all, the cleric spent two 1st level spells and his focus spell, and the sorcerer spent one 1st level spell and his focus spell. No one needed to use a Hero Point.
I did this using the same basic tactics that the used. The only differences were that the rogue never stayed next to an enemy (after making his strike, he always backed away) and the cleric decided to step forward and engage the enemies earlier in the combat, which helped take some attention away from the champion.
Other than that, the enemies didn't win initiative over the entire party in this simulation, and I don't recall them landing a single critical hit. So I don't know if the dice were that "on fire" for me when I GMed last week - but is that enough to make me a Killer GM every 3 or so sessions?

should not be

And this wasn't a case of the party "barely" won - it was a resounding victory. It doesn't seem like in a system like Pathfinder 2e (or even D&D 5e) that this would be within the margins of error.

It probably is, so we are back to you are tactically better then your players. Run dumber monsters or soften the encounters and strong foreshadow the tough fight. To the point of telling them outright (Maybe make them roll a knowledge check).

 

[payn]

So I tried a second simulation of the combat - this time with carbon copies of the actual characters the players used. I handedly defeated the encounter in a little over 4 turns. Half the party (the sorcerer and rogue) were unscathed in the battle. The champion did drop at one point, but was quickly healed and returned to the fight. All-in-all, the cleric spent two 1st level spells and his focus spell, and the sorcerer spent one 1st level spell and his focus spell. No one needed to use a Hero Point.
I did this using the same basic tactics that the used. The only differences were that the rogue never stayed next to an enemy (after making his strike, he always backed away) and the cleric decided to step forward and engage the enemies earlier in the combat, which helped take some attention away from the champion.
Other than that, the enemies didn't win initiative over the entire party in this simulation, and I don't recall them landing a single critical hit. So I don't know if the dice were that "on fire" for me when I GMed last week - but is that enough to make me a Killer GM every 3 or so sessions?
And this wasn't a case of the party "barely" won - it was a resounding victory. It doesn't seem like in a system like Pathfinder 2e (or even D&D 5e) that this would be within the margins of error.

Look at the numbers of sever/extreme encounters. They are almost always decided by crit or no crit of the enemy. This level of fight is very swingy in the NPC favor. A single crit doesn't make a TPK happen, but it certainly will put the PCs on their heels. It can just continue to go downhill from there.

 

[pnewman]

I tailor how cunningly the monsters fight by how Intelligent and Wise the monsters are. AKA - Animals are hungry and will concentrate on killing a single target so they can drag it away and eat it; Orcs will charge you and hit you and not be good at knowing when to run; Elves have a specific plan to mess you up, and can change it on the fly, and know when to run; and if I'm playing a SuperGenius creature like a Lich I'll have the PC's pass me their character sheets for a quick look before or even during the fight, because it's just that clever and might well have been Scrying on them ahead of time.