D&D 5E New Vecna Battle (Let's Get Ready to RUMBLE!!!) - CONCLUDED

[FitzTheRuke]

I think its more a factor of we aren't playing 20th level characters "organically". We are just putting some characters together and going to work. In a normal campaign, the players have grown into these characters (and the DM has watched them grow) over many many sessions, so the abilities become ingrained. Under that condition its a lot easier to run 20th level games, because everyone just knows what everyone in the group can do.

That and the time PBP takes. In both cases where I argued with the DM (to my eternal shame!) it was where I knew about the thing in the days/weeks prior, but didn't think of it during the moments I took to post. If we'd been sitting down at a table, it's possible that I would have forgotten them in the seconds of my turn, maybe, (I can't say I always remember everything at the table, naturally!) but I had them both in mind outside of the time when it became important, which is its own frustration.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Oh. Yeah. I forgot about Stroke of Luck (I knew about it weeks ago, when I wasn't missing, of course, but when I finally missed I couldn't think of it).

I figured it might be the case, which is why I tried to give you a hint/time to think of it...

Honestly, I would MUCH RATHER players take their time before posting if you are busy with life and such and have a more genuine experience than have people feel "rushed".

Speaking of which, @FitzTheRuke what is Pyre doing?

(Unless I skimmed over it? )

 

[DND_Reborn]

There's a thin line between DMing and playing the PCs yourself, I know I find it hard not to point out the various times my players don't notice x or y ability at the right time.

Sigh... Yes, it is very hard to be unbiased. Often times I find myself saying (to myself LOL) "Why did they DO that and not do THIS!?"

Of course, even when I try my best to not act with DM knowledge, I understand I have insights because of it that players don't and so they might not think to do something or use some feature.

And yes, players DO also forget features of their PCs, but in this case I think a lot of it is because we are doing a:

"WHAM! Here is a 20th-level PC which you didn't play from the ground up but I still expect you to know everything your PC can do and play them like a PC with dozens of hard adventures under their belt."

This fight is all about the lair

While the lair plays a HUGE role here, another aspect is I am gaining experience playing Vecna and utilizing him more effectively with each scenario. Also, this is a slightly altered Vecna (swapped out some spells) with the Book of Vile Darkness. Personally, I think the spell choses made him more effective, but the Book is a factor as well.

I also encouraged the participants to being a private DM chat to discuss plans and strategies, but I don't think much of that (if any) has happened.

While I think these scenarios show a well-honed and well-played Venca is certainly a match for a party of 20th level PCs, without some tweaks, etc. I think the stat-block Vecna presented originally by WotC is a bit lack-luster otherwise.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Also, thanks to all for the props. I am glad you think this has been run (decently) well and (hopefully) fair. Like I said, I am running this just like I would run a real in-person game, so the praise is appreciated.

Thanks to all for doing this, it has been fascinating!

No problem, I've enjoyed it myself. It almost makes me want to run a game via EnWorld posts LOL!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Also, thanks to all for the props. I am glad you think this has been run (decently) well and (hopefully) fair. Like I said, I am running this just like I would run a real in-person game, so the praise is appreciated.


No problem, I've enjoyed it myself. It almost makes me want to run a game via EnWorld posts LOL!

I currently run four PBP games here. It's lots of fun, and a lot of work. You should give it a shot. I'd like to play if you decide to do it!

 

[DND_Reborn]

FYI, I am about to start my Monday night game, so take your time I won't run Pyre's Turn until I get home in about 5 hours or more.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Pyre took a second or two to think, she called out to Vyrlim, "I don't think we'll make it, my friend. Farewell."

She ran to her left, and took cover behind the edge of the room, while shooting her bow.

(15 feet left. Shoot. Die, probably).

 

[DND_Reborn]

4.8.19 (Pyre) Pyre takes a total of 13 necrotic damage (half 10+6+10), and fails all three saves to shrug of Afterthought's effects (rolls 15,14,1+4= 19,18,5 vs. DC 20 CON save).

Pyre hesitates, then calls out to Vyrlim, "I don't think we'll make it, my friend. Farewell." She then darts to the left, seeking some cover from Vecna, and lets her arrow fly! She HITS (Roll 17+12=29 vs. AC 18) for 12 piecing damage.

Venca utters a fell word and Pyre takes 6 necrotic damage (half 12). He then teleports further away from Vyrlim.

Pyre staggers backwards into the corner and watches Vyrlim, hoping the Paladin can somehow be victorious...

It is now Vecna's Turn on Initiative 12.

 

[Stalker0]

While the lair plays a HUGE role here, another aspect is I am gaining experience playing Vecna and utilizing him more effectively with each scenario.

I mentioned this in my vecna fight commentary thread, but while the lair is strong, I think vecna has "extra" synergy with any good lair.

1) Infinite teleports can be combined with all sorts of things, such as the tower in the middle of the room, dark nocks and crannies, behind symbol traps, etc. Vecna's healing is incredible when he gets a chance to use it (but weak if he gets novaed), and again the lair augments that.

2) The super counterspell really changes the dynamics. Often in normal boss lairs, your casters can shut down the various features, or even turn them against the boss with their own control effects, and then the fighter types move forward and deliver the pain. But the super counterspell shuts down a lot of that, forcing the party to "deal" with things in way that is not normal for such a high level party to have to deal with. Case in point, in a normal lair I would have just dispelled that key symbol....but with vecna's counterspell I just could never find the chance.

 

[Greg Benage]

While the lair plays a HUGE role here, another aspect is I am gaining experience playing Vecna and utilizing him more effectively with each scenario. Also, this is a slightly altered Vecna (swapped out some spells) with the Book of Vile Darkness. Personally, I think the spell choses made him more effective, but the Book is a factor as well.

I guess I don't know what the book or his spells are doing at this point. Spells could certainly make it worse, if he needed to cast any.

Near as I can tell, this is the ballgame for a party that can't create cover without casting. And, honestly, if the party were less caster-dependent, he probably just sits in his magically obscured pillbox and lets them eat not-spells while they try to figure out how to get at him without casting a spell.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Again, not bitching -- it's a cool lair. But...it's the lair. You had players who couldn't find any better tactical option than casting 9th-level spells and hoping Vecna gets unlucky, entirely because of the lair.