D&D 5E Which classes are functionally composite classes to some degree?

[Minigiant]

The monk isn't a martial artist.

The monk is the magical martial arts. Past level 1, the monk's martial arts is empowered by some sort of fantasy power. Whether it is spiritual forces, mystic power, psionic power, or arcane magic is a choice of the player.


The fighter can be an unarmed martial artist too. But their martial arts wouldn't be empowered the same way. I'd even say the fighter martial artist would be "required" to use magic gauntlets, magic armor, and magic boots.

 

[Mind of tempest]

The thing is, a martial artist only needs good unarmed attacks and the ability to overcome a lack of magic weapons.

The monk is a big package of weird pieced picked and chosen from old kung-fu movies and doesn't work for other martial artists like boxers or even other martial artists.

Also, everyone knows the US Marines are multiclassed.

how does a boxer gain the power to break through steel plate? hint they can't the strange mystical stuff is why martial arts heroes can.

note I am not saying we should not have a sub-class with a boxer theme just that you can't take the mystical stuff out of the monk.

I am not arguing against that but the martial arts is only half what the monk is, it is a mystical martial artist, a boxer is a three-level class like a dude with a sword is a three-level class that some fool stretched into 20 levels for some nuts reason.

no, the game is just terribly bad with non-magic stuff which we will agree on.

 

[Vaalingrade]

how does a boxer gain the power to break through steel plate?

Punching really hard while being a character in a fantasy world.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Punching really hard while being a character in a fantasy world.

look fantasy does not mean you can just do anything or we would all just give ourselves an invincible force field like we are back in the playground.
it has to have a mechanism
a fighter is defined by pure training a mystical martial artist is defined by training and most often knowledge that few otherwise know as most of the cool crazy stuff is kept secret or learned through great personal trial.
I realise the monk needs an overhaul but trying to rip it of anything that sounds Asian just makes it a subclass of fighter which would fail to serve its desired goal, besides if done properly why should we not broaden the list of archetypes to ones that are fundamentally not pseudo-medieval Europe

also, how do they punch Demogorgon to death then? fact they can't as they need mystical stuff to make their fists do damage to Demogorgon, either it has to be magic gloves or they must become something magic by some mystical means.

 

[Vaalingrade]

look fantasy does not mean you can just do anything

It does. It really, really does.

I realise the monk needs an overhaul but trying to rip it of anything that sounds Asian just makes it a subclass of fighter which would fail to serve its desired goal, besides if done properly why should we not broaden the list of archetypes to ones that are fundamentally not pseudo-medieval Europe

I'm not trying to enforce medieval european crap, I'm trying to unyoke punching things from 70's wuxia. We can and still should have that, but that and becoming a weird Law monster shouldn't be the limiter on the archetype.

And frankly, the best way to do tha tin my opinion would be to 1) make a good fighter chassis and then 2) use it.

also, how do they punch Demogorgon to death then?

Really hard.

A. Single. Serious. Punch.

Or (Stranger things spoilers)

Spoiler

a piece of rebar

 

[CreamCloud0]

look fantasy does not mean you can just do anything or we would all just give ourselves an invincible force field like we are back in the playground.

No, fantasy means that these mechanics represent the conceptual ideals these classes invoke to us, We want to play the fantasy and not the physics-limited versions that exist in reality.

 

[Mind of tempest]

It does. It really, really does.

look you can't have just anything happen in a fantasy franchise without people getting annoyed, a fantasy story has to obey the laws of storytelling and sentence structure a fantasy game has to obey mechanics, balance, and internal narrative or it rapidly stops being a game.

I'm not trying to enforce medieval european crap, I'm trying to unyoke punching things from 70's wuxia. We can and still should have that, but that and becoming a weird Law monster shouldn't be the limiter on the archetype.

so what are we arguing over as that is also what I want?

And frankly, the best way to do tha tin my opinion would be to 1) make a good fighter chassis and then 2) use it.

and why is the mystical martial artist best served by being a subclass of fighters? why not make everything a fighter?

Really hard.

A. Single. Serious. Punch.

Or (Stranger things spoilers)

Spoiler

a piece of rebar

contextually I meant the demon lord, not some jumped-up murderous wildlife of the shadowfell, I assumed that was clear?

No, fantasy means that these mechanics represent the conceptual ideals these classes invoke to us, We want to play the fantasy and not the physics-limited versions that exist in reality.

okay, but what is the justification in the world for it, the narrative that makes it work as otherwise it just looks wrong to people.

 

[CreamCloud0]

okay, but what is the justification in the world for it, the narrative that makes it work as otherwise it just looks wrong to people.

The justification for being able to just be incredible in a world that also contains gods, dragons, abberations, multiple realms/dimensions, elves, dwarves and tieflings, The world is literally teeming with magic on an atomic level, That’s your justification.

 

[Vaalingrade]

look you can't have just anything happen in a fantasy franchise without people getting annoyed, a fantasy story has to obey the laws of storytelling and sentence structure a fantasy game has to obey mechanics, balance, and internal narrative or it rapidly stops being a game.

You can't have anything happen without people getting annoyed. The secret is to not care about them because they can and will ruin everything.

In fact, Star Wars turned itself into a laughing stock by trying to explain its superpowers. Do you want midichlorian? Because this line of thinking is how you get midichlorians.

so what are we arguing over as that is also what I want?

I have no idea.

and why is the mystical martial artist best served by being a subclass of fighters? why not make everything a fighter?

Why no indeed? The fighter is the one who hits things with other things, so a class that hits things with other things would use it as a base. You hit things with other things and also you do so by training so hard that your fist can punch people's souls out and you can run up walls also.

contextually I meant the demon lord, not some jumped-up murderous wildlife of the shadowfell, I assumed that was clear?

That was the joke, yeah.

Also, the have to hit him with Two Serious Punches. One for each dumb head.

okay, but what is the justification in the world for it, the narrative that makes it work as otherwise it just looks wrong to people.

I use the same reasoning that lets a living napalm tank fly without any magic.

 

[le Redoutable]

be it F(ighting)ASERIP or M(artial)ADEPPS, warrior paths are a reality ( ?? )