D&D 5E 5e isn't a Golden Age of D&D Lorewise, it's Silver at best.

[Parmandur]

Let's be clear that this is deeply misleading.

WotC "held down" prices which rose by, what, 10%? And then increased them by over 70%.

What WotC are charging for Spelljammer is insanely higher than inflation. It's higher than inflation since the '80s, for god's sake.

And if they release 64-page books for $30 each, that's even more insane, that's HUNDREDS of percent. Don't lie to people about the numbers. It's too easy to disprove. When you lie to people's faces like that, you destroy your own credibility, and really should apologise for doing so.

(To be clear, if they release a 192 page book for $30, then they'll be forgiven, that's only slightly overpriced, but that doesn't seem to be the messaging.)

It is absolutely the case that if you go into a FLGS and look at a 64 page book of all color RPG material, which do exist from several companies, they will be $30. I am sorry if you don't like that, but it is true. That is the facts in the ground.

Inflation has been way more than 10% since 2014. Something thst cost $49.99 in 2014 is goijg to be $62.57 in 2022. So if they kept up with inflation strictly, they would be charging $63...which, as it happens, is precisely what I paid for Spelljammer at my FLGS with their 10% preorder discount, which I'm dead certain is not a coincidence.

 

[MNblockhead]

Could we swing the conversation back to @teitan 's comment about the satanic panic coming back? Because "Dark Dungeons" is the only lore I care about.

Seriously though, is this the case? I have neither read nor heard about any moral-panic fuss being made about D&D.

 

[MNblockhead]

I don't get it when people throw around the word "overcharging" when discussing leisure and luxury items. It is only overcharging when the prices is more than many people want to pay leading to overall less profit than they would make if they charged less. I think they are doing quite well at the current price points. For those with tighter wallets, the run away success of the game means that it is easy to find sales on the books, used copies, etc. The only thing that I've ever felt was "over priced" were WotC dice, both the physical or digital versions. But any price would be over priced for those items for me. Yet, there certainly are plenty of people who find the price acceptable, because they are selling them.

 

[Parmandur]

I don't get it when people throw around the word "overcharging" when discussing leisure and luxury items. It is only overcharging when the prices is more than many people want to pay leading to overall less profit than they would make if they charged less. I think they are doing quite well at the current price points. For those with tighter wallets, the run away success of the game means that it is easy to find sales on the books, used copies, etc. The only thing that I've ever felt was "over priced" were WotC dice, both the physical or digital versions. But any price would be over priced for those items for me. Yet, there certainly are plenty of people who find the price acceptable, because they are selling them.

I certainly don’t think anyone needs to be happy about rising costs, but thstthe nature of the system and WotC isn't doing anything unfair or underhanded here.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

which do exist from several companies

Examples?

I've never seen a 64-page full-colour TT RPG book at all, let alone one that cost $30. I'd like multiple specific examples here, because I am suggesting you are being misleading, and I can't find any examples on a cursory Google search.

Inflation has been way more than 10% since 3024.

I have no idea what your phone did to you here. But tell it from me it's been very bad!

Something thst cost $49.99 in 2014 is goijg to be $62.57 in 2022.

Most of that inflation has been this year. I was using figures from earlier this year, when the price was actually announced. But sure, with dollar inflation, a 2014 dollar is worth about $1.25 now. That's a lot smaller than the increase WotC have done, as I've pointed out.

Would a 192 page book cost $49.99 in 2014, though? That's the question, and your comparison doesn't work unless it did. I mean, the PHB and DMG were $49.99, but they were 320 pages, and the MM was 352 pages at the same price. So what WotC books from 2014 (or say, 2015 or 2016 even) were only 192 pages and cost $49.99?

Otherwise you're making a deliberately false comparison.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I certainly don’t think anyone needs to be happy about rising costs, but thstthe nature of the system and WotC isn't doing anything unfair or underhanded here.

Turning a 192 page book into 3 64-page books and selling them for $70, then suggesting they're going to sell each for $30 is absolutely "underhanded" (indeed the selling them separately at a massive mark-up is essentially an attempt to arm-twist people into buying the set), I would suggest. Unfair? Well, that's a matter of perspective, isn't it? I wouldn't call it unfair. I'd call it grotesque.

 

[Parmandur]

Would a 192 page book cost $49.99 in 2014, though? That's the question, and your comparison doesn't work unless it did. I mean, the PHB and DMG were $49.99, but they were 320 pages, and the MM was 352 pages at the same price. So what WotC books from 2014 (or say, 2015 or 2016 even) were only 192 pages and cost $49.99?

Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat were each 96 pages, and cost $30 each at the time, so that's 192 pages for $60.y point is more that 320 page vooks published in the future will probably be closer to $70 in list price than $50.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat were each 96 pages, and cost $30 each at the time, so that's 192 pages for $60.y point is more that 320 page vooks published in the future will probably be closer to $70 in list price than $50.

No.

You need to find a 192 page book for $49.99.

You don't get to combine books that were sold separately - that's dishonesty, like I was saying (I do agree WotC adventures are usually hilariously overpriced though). I've already shown WotC sold 320 to 352 page books for $49.99 back then.

As for your second, edited-in point, sure, and I'd be lot happier with a 320 page book selling for $70 than a 192 page one. But right now Spelljammer is a 192-page book selling for $70, and threatening to sell as three separate books for $90.

Also, where are my examples for "full-colour 64-page TT RPG books" that are on sale right now for $30. You said there were several from various publishers, which means you must necessarily know what they are. I haven't found any yet.

(EDIT - As an aside, I'd rather see increased prices and a return to solid books, rather than what we have, which is increased prices and even less material than before. I don't think that's unreasonable.)

EDIT - I'm not going to push you further on this, but I'm noting you've made two very specific claims, and relied on them for your arguments.

1) "WotC sold 192-page books for $49.99 in 2014"

Now I think you probably typed in haste here, but you relied on it for your argument. If you or anyone else wants to show examples WotC selling 192 page D&D books (preferably rule or setting books, not adventures, but let's see) for $49.99 in 2014, or 2015, or 2016, I'd love to see that.

2) "Several TT RPG publishers sell 64-page full colour books [presumably A4 hardbacks, but I don't know if that matters] for $30 right now".

I couldn't find any examples for this, and it's a very specific claim. If you or anyone else has examples, I'd be pretty interested to hear them. The closest I could get was Mork Borg, which is a kind of an astonishing work of art, but that's 96 pages for 33.99 RRP, which is quite a lot better.

Hopefully someone kind find the examples, otherwise I'm going to move on just assume those were made-up.

 

[Parmandur]

No.

You need to find a 192 page book for $49.99.

You don't get to combine books that were sold separately - that's dishonesty, like I was saying (I do agree WotC adventures are usually hilariously overpriced though). I've already shown WotC sold 320 to 352 page books for $49.99 back then.

As for your second, edited-in point, sure, and I'd be lot happier with a 320 page book selling for $70 than a 192 page one. But right now Spelljammer is a 192-page book selling for $70, and threatening to sell as three separate books for $90.

Also, where are my examples for "full-colour 64-page TT RPG books" that are on sale right now for $30. You said there were several from various publishers, which means you must necessarily know what they are. I haven't found any yet.

(EDIT - As an aside, I'd rather see increased prices and a return to solid books, rather than what we have, which is increased prices and even less material than before. I don't think that's unreasonable.)

I had established the price point somewhere before, I'll look into that latter and get back to you: I will concede thst $25 may be the price point I was thinking of after a cursory search.

WotC did 6r page full color hardcovers every couple of months in 4E, and they costoee that $30 after inflation.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

WotC did 6r page full color hardcovers every couple of months in 4E, and they costoee that $30 after inflation.

Errrr what?

Which ones. I've got the list of all 4E books open right now and I haven't found any with less than 160 pages. Are you confusing that with 64 pages? You say "every two months"? Surely they should be listed somewhere. All the "short" books I can think of for 4E I've checked and they were 160 pages.

EDIT - I found some 32-page race books, two of them, both in 2010, but I can't find out how much they sold for, and if it was more than $10, they were grossly overpriced.

Here's a list which has page counts for most (Google can find you the rest)

List of Dungeons & Dragons rulebooks - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org