D&D 5E Being strong and skilled is a magic of its own or, how I learned to stop worrying and love anime fightin' magic

[Jefe Bergenstein]

This isn't an accident. Zorro and Robin Hood will never gain the power and breadth of tools of a Doctor Strange by just training and getting more experience, and neither do the classes that look to them for inspiration. Power comparable to high level spells just isn't acquired in the same way by non-magicians in most fiction.

Magicians in fiction traveling with martial heroes are limited to minor tricks, or they're enemies/npc guides.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I get the feeling everyone got used to the 'linear warriors, quadratic wizards' trope and now when you deviate from it people get upset. It might change as you have more anime influences, where that's less of a thing.

Sort of this. D&D chased anyone who questioned it away, and the fighter leaning players who remained were happy with Town Guard +1.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Can we go the other way and bring the magic users down to the martial's level? That is what my group prefers. OH wait, we already do that with houserules - we are all good then!

Seriously though. That is not what 5e is nor will be. Though they could make a class like that (similar to the Monk or Paladin which are magic martials). Your best bet for D&D that fits your desires is to play 4e or PF2. They are great games and do what you want out of the box. Or, grab a 3PP (or homebrew) supplement that does what you want for 5e. They are out there. Heck, I started one here for fighter built on wizard chassis (not the best starting point, more to prove a point).

They only reason we can't have this is guys like you who somehow think another class will wreck the game, but don't bat an eye at the half dozen caster classes wasting space.

"Don't let them order a something I don't want to eat!"

 

[HammerMan]

Magicians in fiction traveling with martial heroes are limited to minor tricks, or they're enemies/npc guides.

Harry Potter says expecti something and the weapon flies from an enemy hand
Dr strange (in movies) makes laser ropes that pulls an item from there hand
Luke or Rey skywalker uses the force and a hand motion to knock the weapon from there hand
The Lone Ranger shoots the weapon out of there hand
Batman or cap throws there weapon (shield or batarrang) and disarms them

In there own stories they all do this. In a team up cross over they should all still be able to do this.

 

[HammerMan]

Sort of this. D&D chased anyone who questioned it away, and the fighter leaning players who remained were happy with Town Guard +1.

Some still are trying to chase us away. “That’s not in the scope, go play a different game”

 

[DND_Reborn]

Polls have shown that the maximum power-level players (a la EnWorld anyway) are generally comfortable for martials is Captain America/Black Panther levels. I associate that with the Hercules/Xena level as well and I can get totally on board with it for 14+ level PCs.

What I really don't want is martials doing things "magically". Having them move so fast they seem like a blur is one thing--having them vanish or teleport or do anything obviously magical is not their purview IMO.

Now, instead of boosting martials, my appeal has always been to rein in casters, limiting spells to 5th or 6th levels. You can still do insane stuff with magic at those levels.

At any rate, since I seem to be in the minority on such things, I'll just express my POV and move on. Enjoy your games!

 

[eyeheartawk]

I recognize the need to have the martials scale (at least somewhat) with casters. And aside from basically just making everyone a caster of some type, this requires some non-Euclidian math in the physics.

That being said, I do think there is a middle ground between a Guy With Slightly Better Halberd and Guy Who Naruto Runs Up A Dragon Vertically With Lit Eyes.

Now we just all need to agree what that middle ground is.

Good luck.

 

[dave2008]

They only reason we can't have this is guys like you who somehow think another class will wreck the game, but don't bat an eye at the half dozen caster classes wasting space.

Don't lump me in that group. I would be copletely fine with the return of 4e style martials. And I agreed, later in this thread I believe, that you could achieve this through a new class (I have actually done one on these forums: a fighter based on the wizard class).

Please don't make assumptions or make it personal.

PS - we only play with wizards and druids in our game, so there are only two PC caster class

 

[GMforPowergamers]

But it is not a new edition. So you can ask, but you will not get it. I just don't want you to get frustrated and think they are not listening.

if they are listening, and we make enough noise, maybe we can change the world... 1D&D 1 player 1 vote

They have specifically said this not a new edition, so your desires simply cannot be met within the scope of what they have said they are doing.

you have no idea what they are or are not doing with classes... nether do we.

The one caveat to that is, they could achieve what you want by adding a new dedicated class (let's call it the demigod). However, that is likely to come out after the 2024 release.

warlord, warblade, swordsage, animesword guy... I don't need it to be called fighter

 

[TwoSix]

Polls have shown that the maximum power-level players (a la EnWorld anyway) are generally comfortable for martials is Captain America/Black Panther levels. I associate that with the Hercules/Xena level as well and I can get totally on board with it for 14+ level PCs.

What I really don't want is martials doing things "magically". Having them move so fast they seem like a blur is one thing--having them vanish or teleport or do anything obviously magical is not their purview IMO.

Now, instead of boosting martials, my appeal has always been to rein in casters, limiting spells to 5th or 6th levels. You can still do insane stuff with magic at those levels.

At any rate, since I seem to be in the minority on such things, I'll just express my POV and move on. Enjoy your games!

For what it's worth, I'm right there with you. High level characters should be ultimate badasses, but not gods. Warrior types should have toughness and resilience and athleticism that's supernatural, but not throwing lightning or teleporting. Mage-types should follow the warlock model, but simply give out more invocations and spell slots above 11th, instead of getting 6th+ level spells.

Put powerful effects in the DM's hands by handing out boons and powerful items, allowing the DM to customize the higher power levels to taste.