D&D (2024) One D&D Grappling

[Ruin Explorer]

Now it is not possible to make a dedicated grapple build, but grapple is now better integrated in the rules.
Seems like a good thing to me.

The only thing I am not totally content with is how you initialize a grapple. I don't have a better idea that still is so smooth.
Maybe you can just grab and the enemy has to make a dex or str saving throw to get out of your grab immediately.
And you decide what you do before you you make the unarmed attack. Same for shove?

I wonder if passive perception will now just be 8+wis+prof bonus.

Why is having fewer real build and combat tactics options better? That seems perverse.

 

[jgsugden]

What concerns me is that when you grapple someone, the only ways for them to be freed before the end of their next turn is for you to be incapacitated, or for them to be force moved out of your grapple's range. Other than that, the target is locked down.

This can be a nasty way to lock down a powerful melee force for a couple rounds of combat by using a fairly minor ally. If you're a PC, that may be a summons. If you're a bad guy it could be a CR 1/2 toss in during a high level encounter.

Not being able to break the grapple through trying to escape can lock PCs out of the main combat. It can keep powerful bruisers totally away from the PCs.

I think they really need to reintroduce a way for PCs to sacrifice an attack in order to break a grapple during their turn.

 

[Yaarel]

I like grappling as a normal attack roll.

Grappling should work on any size. If a Medium grapples a Tiny, it means grabbing tight in ones grip. If a Medium grapples a Gargantuan, it means successfully riding a dinosaur.

The size has more to do with who controls the direction of movement. But the grappling itself - in the sense of holding on - works either way regardless of size.

 

[Yaarel]

What concerns me is that when you grapple someone, the only ways for them to be freed before the end of their next turn is for you to be incapacitated, or for them to be force moved out of your grapple's range. Other than that, the target is locked down.

This can be a nasty way to lock down a powerful melee force for a couple rounds of combat by using a fairly minor ally. If you're a PC, that may be a summons. If you're a bad guy it could be a CR 1/2 toss in during a high level encounter.

Not being able to break the grapple through trying to escape can lock PCs out of the main combat. It can keep powerful bruisers totally away from the PCs.

I think they really need to reintroduce a way for PCs to sacrifice an attack in order to break a grapple during their turn.

Maybe grappled condition denies reaction, but a bonus action can attempt to break free, so the action can reverse the hold?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Why is having fewer real build and combat tactics options better? That seems perverse.

I think perverse is a nice word... but hey...

I think a grappler build is close to be an exploit, as enemies even like giants have a very low bonus compared to PCs.

I think the newer version opens it up for more normal characters.
Actually always when I hear about "builds" instead of characters, I know that it is not what I want at my table.

That does not mean, that you can build a character that focusses on a game aspect, but it is the character, which is important, not a "build". I think looking at the game in this way is "perverse" if I use your words here.
But that is only my point of view and I would not use that kind of words. If you like the game that way. Play that way.
I don't particularily like it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Interesting. It makes some sense to me. Anyone can grapple, but being able to restrain someone takes some training. Why is that "lame" in your view?

For reference:

1. Its a feat. Although most games use feats, not all do. I agree being able to restrain should require some training, but a feat? shrug You are already using a second attack to progress from grappled to restrained, that should be sufficient. Now, if you grapple and attempt to restrain, but fail, then perhaps the creature escapes automatically or at the very least allow advantage on the next escape attempt.

2. If you restrain a creature, you are also restrained. Which means your speed is also 0, so you can't move the creature. Your speed should not be reduced as it is already half when attempting to move grappled creatures.

3. The Restrained Condition is weak. A restrained creature should not be able to take any actions other than trying to escape being restrained. What is Restrained should be more of a Grappled Condition (at least the new playtest material is heading in the correct direction in that respect...), but with half speed instead of 0 speed.

4. It deals no damage. If you want to deal damage, you also need to take the Fighting Style... The feat should make your grapple deal 1d4+STR mod damage IMO.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Another way that made grapples extremely effective was Warlock + Barbarian. Warlock uses Hex to give disadvantage on STR checks, Barbarian gets advantage on STR checks whilst raging. Tons of monsters got dragged to bad places that way.

Except you can't do it. You can't maintain concentration on Hex when raging, so as soon as you Rage the spell ends, so no disadvantage on the STR checks.

Now, if you mean two separate PCs working together for it, then sure, but it seems like you meant one PC. If not, my mistake.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I think perverse is a nice word... but hey...

I think a grappler build is close to be an exploit, as enemies even like giants have a very low bonus compared to PCs.

I think the newer version opens it up for more normal characters.
Actually always when I hear about "builds" instead of characters, I know that it is not what I want at my table.

That does not mean, that you can build a character that focusses on a game aspect, but it is the character, which is important, not a "build". I think looking at the game in this way is "perverse" if I use your words here.
But that is only my point of view and I would not use that kind of words. If you like the game that way. Play that way.
I don't particularily like it.

I mean logically perverse, not as a value judgement. I.e. the opposite of good design.

And you honestly need to explain the claim re opening up options. If anything this odes the opposite. It also means tons of stuff which currently supports grappling is now next to useless.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I think they really need to reintroduce a way for PCs to sacrifice an attack in order to break a grapple during their turn.

This is a good point. If you can use an attack to grapple, you should be able to use a single attack to escape instead of your entire Action.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Except you can't do it. You can't maintain concentration on Hex when raging, so as soon as you Rage the spell ends, so no disadvantage on the STR checks.

Now, if you mean two separate PCs working together for it, then sure, but it seems like you meant one PC. If not, my mistake.

I mean two separate PCs. There are very few MCs in any game I play in or DM. In fact only two I can think of our of over twenty characters.