D&D 5E Silvery Barbs - How has it looked in play?

How strong is Silvery Barbs in your game?


  • Poll closed .

Stalker0

Legend
Many months ago we had a massive series of debates about silvery barbs when it first came out. Some thought it was fine, some though it was incredibly OP.

Now that a lot of time has gone by, and the spell has had time to hit the tables and work through the system.....how have you found it? Did you find it OP, was it just fine, was it actually too weak? click the poll!
 

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SakanaSensei

Adventurer
I can't vote here because I don't necessarily think I can comment on balance, but I do have some thoughts on the spell.

I was originally fine with it. Did it seem strong? Maybe, but I didn't freak out about the strength of it.

Seeing it in play, I find it atrocious. Even if it isn't OP, every time a player shouts out "SILVERY BARBS!" the game grinds to a halt with forced rerolls, determining who to give the Advantage to, having to remind people to use the Advantage. It's also, so far, felt very divorced from the fiction and feels more game-y than I thought it would.
 

Unwise

Adventurer
It is a first level spell that can force a spell of any level through. Even if only once a day you use it for force through a banishment or polymorph, it is as if you had another 4th level spell + an extra action (not having to cast again) + a free advantage. It is insanely OP.
This is made far worse by the fact that 5e has very poorly scaling resistances. High level casters are very hard to resist. If you can add disadvantage when you need to, they are way too likely to push save-or-suck spells through.
 


I would say somewhere below "overpowered" but above "balanced", because it's not like existing spells are particularly well balanced. Next to Shield it's balanced, but it is definitely a top tier 1st level spell.

It's within an acceptable level of gamebreaking to me. I just wish they hadn't added an excellent and somewhat complicated 1st level spell that will obviously see a lot of play in a book nobody is likely to bring to game night.
 

ECMO3

Hero
It is a first level spell that can force a spell of any level through. Even if only once a day you use it for force through a banishment or polymorph, it is as if you had another 4th level spell + an extra action (not having to cast again) + a free advantage. It is insanely OP.
This is made far worse by the fact that 5e has very poorly scaling resistances. High level casters are very hard to resist. If you can add disadvantage when you need to, they are way too likely to push save-or-suck spells through.
Is this based on seeing it in play or in the white room?

I have seen it played in multiple groups, both as a DM and as a player and I played a wizard who had it myself and I don't think it is the most powerful 1st level spell by a longshot. Shield is WAY more powerful.

I would put SB as a solid spell, roughly on par with Cause Fear, Absorb Elements, Cure Wounds, Sanctuary and Dissonant Whispers.

It is substantially behind the best 1st level spells including Shield, Bless, Goodberry, Protection from Evil and Good, Catapult, Healing Word, Hex and Faerie Fire.

The biggest problem with Silvery Barbs is most of the time you try to use it to "force a spell" it does not actually change the outcome. All it does is cost a 1st level slot, give someone an advantage and worst of all use your raction. That is not all the time, but it is most of the time. The major weakness in Silvery Barbs is it is a reroll on a save or attack that has already landed. This means statistically you get to use it most is when the enemy has a high attack bonus or a high saving throw and that enemy is likely to make the reroll, while taking your reaction which can be crippling, especially if you are a wizard with truly game-changing reaction spells like counterspell, absorb elements and shield, which always land (or in the case of shield almost always).

The last Wizard I played with it went to 14th level. We had three casters in the party with SB (a bard, an Artificer-Wizard and me). The party was effective with Silvery Barbs changing a save on a spell exactly twice in that entire campaign and once it required all three of us to cast it to get to that as he saved and saved again and saved again and then failed (we used it to land Psychic Lance on Jubilex who was already out of legendaries).

We did use it to undo critical hits a lot and it is great in that role. We also used it to successfully cause someone to fail a hide check once and a grapple check once. We also used it on our own Barbarian to make him reroll an attack and give our Rogue advantage on a save against charm that he got to make at the end of his upcoming turn. That said, the only time my Wizard went down that entire campaign was when she used SB to undue a crit - the bad guy still hit, then hit 2 more times, then his ally hit me twice and I went to 0. If I had used shield instead I might have survived even after taking the crit.

It is a solid spell, but after extensive play it has not been close to OP at any table I have seen it on.
 
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jgsugden

Legend
I have a 10th level Aberrant Mind Sorcerer. My first levels spells are Dissonant Whispers, Silvery Barbs, Shield and Absorb Elements. All four see about equal use. I use the Silvery Barbs to try to force rerolls on saves, when needed, and to give PCs advantage on really important saves. It was been useful, but not overwhelmingly so. As an Aberrant Mind sorcerer that has it as one of my special spells, I get to cast it more than most PCs that have it.

I mostly use it to force a reroll on saving throws, but I also toss it away - sometimes on a failed enemy roll - to make sure an ally gets advantage on an important roll, such as a final death save or a second save against a petrification.

All in all - it is what I thought it was - solid, fun, but not overpowered
 


rgoodbb

Adventurer
Seen it in play twice and have thought about taking it myself.

The 3rd level Spirit Bard who had it, used all of their spell slots for it and had no others left before realising this. It was that powerful and easy to use that other spells weren't even considered. It was only after she was out of slots that we all realised.

3rd level Lore Bard used it to land a Blindness that had been saved. Changed the encounter from difficult to pushover. They used it a couple more times and didn't even think about using their reaction for Cutting Words.

I have build a PC with it, but then took it away before actual play because I felt dirty.

I think if you are choosing it over all of your other options consistently, you either just love that spell or it may be more powerful than any other option you have. After discussion, we have decided to either not have the spell or have it be cast at a higher level if someone really wants it.

If accessible, it's feels like an auto-pick and an auto-use. From my point of view, I personally think its the most powerful spell at the low levels. I cannot attest to higher level play. So I would class it as overpowered.
 

Unwise

Adventurer
The biggest problem with Silvery Barbs is most of the time you try to use it to "force a spell" it does not actually change the outcome.

My experience is from actual play. It is what pointed out to me how OP the spell can be. It gets worse and worse the higher level you go. At low levels it is just a different/worse shield. When used against attacks it is fine. When used against skill rolls, it is interesting. When used to push through spells it is OP.

The problem is that enemies generally have a very small chance of resisting spells at high level, unless you are using something that is clearly the wrong spell. It takes a 1/5 chance of resisting and makes it a 1/25 chance. At high levels it is the opposite of what you are describing. It makes landing a spell on an enemy way too likely. There is no real price for failing your 5th level slot, you just spent a 1st level spell and effectively get another try at a high level spell.

When it was letting you reroll a save on a hold person etc it was powerful but not insane. When a 1st level spell is basically giving you another chance at Dominate Monster, or Banishment, it is OP.
 

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