D&D 5E Being strong and skilled is a magic of its own or, how I learned to stop worrying and love anime fightin' magic

[MockingBird]

I have no problem with this. Keep it for those that want it.

Let's also have the martial that is more complex, doesn't use traditional spellcasting, and builds to 'crazy stuff' by 20th level (although no crazier than the Wizard).

Also, for those that don't want it or will never use it in their games, I would make the request of please don't try to block it, complain if it is more powerful than the mundane Fighter (but equal or less than the Wizard), or suggest what would make it "acceptable" for you when you have no intention of ever using it anyway. Let the people that want this class have the microphone and just ignore it in your games and use the mundane fighter.

As long as it doesn't break class balance amoung ALL classes, why can't both exist and people pick what they want to use?

Rereading my post it does sound a bit like I'm advocating for blocking the option. I don't want to block it, I definitely want it to be optional. I just don't want the mundane fighter dying off. I feel there's room for both within the bounds of the game rules and balance.

 

[Garthanos]

Rereading my post it does sound a bit like I'm advocating for blocking the option. I don't want to block it, I definitely want it to be optional. I just don't want the mundane fighter dying off. I feel there's room for both within the bounds of the game rules and balance.

I have been considering something called Empowered Bloodlines. The Mundane Empowered Bloodline comes with the Lucky feat free of charge and some other.. details not yet available. They might be able to universally attune one more magic item...

 

[James Gasik]

At least 88, and still have oomph enough for a miniboss and a real boss.

In fairness, there wasn't really 88 of them. They called themselves the Crazy 88 because they thought it sounded cool.

 

[DND_Reborn]

As long as it doesn't break class balance amoung ALL classes, why can't both exist and people pick what they want to use?

The Fighter needs it...

What about all the rest?

No Barbarian can match the Wizard.
No Bard...
No Cleric...
No Druid...
No Monk...
No Paladin...
No Ranger...
No Rogue...
No Sorcerer...
and No Warlock.

Some can come closer (the other full casters) than others (half-casters and martials) certainly, but all these threads focus on the Fighter.

Burst strength is the reason why we are measuring this and I would be willing to bet that lineman has better lift capability, whichever lift that is, and the rules do not distinguish upper vs lower also I was both a linebacker and running back at times in high school pretty sure that is the same mobility needs and we are reflecting on Strength .. Did I have an 8.25 x 2 or 16+ strength in high school? shrug we are ball parking but the point is the numbers are not legendary to me they are just too close to normal.

And yes I had come up with a similar "home hack" adding in athletics but the need for a die roll seems meh. Let em jump that far without a roll, I want legendary boom with a roll. And I do not specify distances that precisely in play

Certainly, the linemen would have better lift.

(Bold added)
shrug It depends on what "legendary" is to you. For me, world records are legendary. I've posted a number of times about buffs to Fighters to allow them to accomplish truly incredible beyond-real-life feats.

For example:

Action Surge. You gain a number of uses equal to your proficiency bonus. When you expend a use of Action Surge, you can take one additional action on your turn. You can expend more than one use on your turn.

You can only take one attack even if you have the Extra Attack feature when using Action Surge. When you jump, you can expend a use of your Action Surge to increase the distance you can jump by your maximum distance. When you lift, you can expend a use of your Action Surge to increase the amount of weight you can lift. You regain all expended uses of Action Surge when you finish a short or long rest.

With the above change to Action Surge, a Fighter with STR 20 (normally can lift 600 lbs) could expend a use of Action Surge to double that to 1200, or up to six (the maximum in tier 4) uses to lift 4200 lbs. (base 600 + 6 x 600 = 4200).

Expending a use to Dash would add your speed again. So, speed 30 would become Dash 60, AS #1 120, AS #2 180, .... up to AS #6 = 420 speed. (Each AS is another Dash, effectively adding your Dash speed again--I know this isn't quite how Dash works, but it is how I would do it with Action Surge.)

Jumping would be base 20 feet for STR 20. One AS makes it 40, two AS makes it 60, up to all six AS = 140 feet.

Being able to lift 4200 lbs, run 47 mph, and jump 140 feet seems freaking "legendary" to me, which a tier 4 STR 20 Fighter could do once per short or long rest. I could see this being a limit for someone like Captain America, but I only know him from the movies...

 

[James Gasik]

So thinking about the "why not both?" option, which I'm going to admit, I haven't seen many people who want the mundane Fighter offer that olive branch (so no disrespect, MockingBird), there is, sadly, a good reason why.

The improbability that a guy with "realistic" limitations (whatever those may be) can also coexist at the same power level as someone capable of superheroic feats. Sure, we all immediately think "well Batman" (or Hawkeye), but the thing is, those aren't "mundane Fighters".

Hawkeye's ability to never miss, even if it's some insane trick shot, or even shooting blind? Batman's 20 in all stats, mastery of all skills, and all tools, and a wide variety of Fighting styles?

Those are superhuman feats in of themselves. And we're not even talking about Batman vs. Superman here. We're not even talking about 80's action heroes- the "mundane Fighter" isn't John Rambo.

He (or she, or it) is Sgt. Rock. A competent and experienced soldier whose main schtick is they can take anything World War 2 can throw at them and not die.

 

[Cadence]

The Fighter needs it...

What about all the rest?

No Barbarian can match the Wizard.
No Bard...
No Cleric...
No Druid...
No Monk...
No Paladin...
No Ranger...
No Rogue...
No Sorcerer...
and No Warlock.

But that would mean the Wizard (who we've been told does a bad job of matching casters in the inspirational literature anyway) is the problem...

Can that possibly be right!?!?!

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

Rereading my post it does sound a bit like I'm advocating for blocking the option. I don't want to block it, I definitely want it to be optional. I just don't want the mundane fighter dying off. I feel there's room for both within the bounds of the game rules and balance.

Cool. I hope we are the majority and it makes it into 5.5e. I'm fine with an optional class in an official splat book if that's how people would prefer to see the "mythic martial". I don't think it's worth it to try to merge it with the existing Fighter.

My requests were based on other fix the Fighter threads where people have taken the position of:

1) putting this mythic martial class in the game, even as optional, will ruin the game
2) 'helpful' suggestions on how to tone down the mythic martial so that it will be more acceptable to them when they explicitly state they are never going to use it
3) crying foul if it looks like the mythical martial is more versatile and powerful than the mundane fighter (but not the Wizard), which is entirely the point

 

[DND_Reborn]

Can that possibly be right!?!?!

Not just the Wizard, but they are the worst "offender".

 

[Cadence]

So thinking about the "why not both?" option, which I'm going to admit, I haven't seen many people who want the mundane Fighter offer that olive branch (so no disrespect, MockingBird), there is, sadly, a good reason why.

The improbability that a guy with "realistic" limitations (whatever those may be) can also coexist at the same power level as someone capable of superheroic feats. Sure, we all immediately think "well Batman" (or Hawkeye), but the thing is, those aren't "mundane Fighters".

Hawkeye's ability to never miss, even if it's some insane trick shot, or even shooting blind? Batman's 20 in all stats, mastery of all skills, and all tools, and a wide variety of Fighting styles?

Those are superhuman feats in of themselves. And we're not even talking about Batman vs. Superman here. We're not even talking about 80's action heroes- the "mundane Fighter" isn't John Rambo.

He (or she, or it) is Sgt. Rock. A competent and experienced soldier whose main schtick is they can take anything World War 2 can throw at them and not die.

I'm reading that as either "Because Hawkeye and Cap are already much better than Sgt. Rock, we might as well go all the way to Hulk and Thor." or "Stop using the word mundane to describe what you want."

I'm guessing neither of those was your point. Help!

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

So thinking about the "why not both?" option, which I'm going to admit, I haven't seen many people who want the mundane Fighter offer that olive branch (so no disrespect, MockingBird), there is, sadly, a good reason why.

The improbability that a guy with "realistic" limitations (whatever those may be) can also coexist at the same power level as someone capable of superheroic feats.

It's a reason but not a good reason. If the mundane Fighter is expected to co-exist with the Wizard as of now, what difference does it make that the mundane is outclassed by both the mythic martial and the Wizard?

If you want to maintain the martial / full caster gap, just ban the mythic martial from your game. Having it as an optional Class opens up new frontiers for those who want it.