D&D 5E Being strong and skilled is a magic of its own or, how I learned to stop worrying and love anime fightin' magic

[Gammadoodler]

Aren't the records for a lot of things a lot lower even back in the 1960s? I guess I have a distraction of something to look up next time I need one

Sorry. I meant the 1200s to 1500s.

 

[Cadence]

Sorry. I meant the 1200s to 1500s.

Oh, right. I got that

I was just assuming the ones from the 1200-1500s would be lower than what the mid-twentieth century would have had (given the larger world population and sizeable pockets of folks training for those specific events).

 

[Willie the Duck]

Magic User the bazooka who could become invisible between each turn till they attacked... create ares of Darkness that they could see through... they were badass too

FYI, I found my copy of Chainmail, if there is a specific question
Oh, for sure. Once again, though, the lowest point-cost Magic User cost as much as the highest cost fighting man. Where they intersected the fighting man did all the things mentioned, and the magic user would have fireball, lightning bolt, and one other spell. You can make a squad based around it, but it isn't obviously better than a similar pointed (levelled) fighter (which I think is the point we're discussing? I've lost the thread).

 

[Gammadoodler]

Oh, right. I got that

I was just assuming the ones from the 1200-1500s would be lower than what the mid-twentieth century would have had (given the larger world population and sizeable pockets of folks training for those specific events).

Oh yeah. Probably. Also better nutrition now.

That said, significantly more active lifestyles and the nature of the lottery that is human genetics are a bit of a counterbalance. Especially considering that the nature of their activity is more D&D relevant than modern record holders.

But in either case, with the lack of reliable recordkeeping, I feel pretty comfortable saying that if D&D stat impact truly is "superhuman" by medieval standards, it's a matter of coincidence rather than design intent.

 

[Garthanos]

Olympic competition records hmmm

FYI, I found my copy of Chainmail, if there is a specific question
Oh, for sure. Once again, though, the lowest point-cost Magic User cost as much as the highest cost fighting man. Where they intersected the fighting man did all the things mentioned, and the magic user would have fireball, lightning bolt, and one other spell. You can make a squad based around it, but it isn't obviously better than a similar pointed (levelled) fighter (which I think is the point we're discussing? I've lost the thread).

This is maybe a thread branch. Weren't there various synonym magic users defined like warlocks/sorcerers basically as lower ability Magic types? I remember a ranger as a type of hero but not the difference.

 

[Maxperson]

I hit reply to the wrong post!!!

That explains it!

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

Have to agree. There's no specific issue with including this in the game. As to why it isn't/I suspect it won't* is simply that I don't know how many people have a problem with this role being filled with paladins and hexblades -- this 'but not using spells' part (plus it needing to be part of the fighter class) seems to be a requirement I see people having here, but not in gamerdom at large (here I'm using Reddit and in-person as my primary sources).
*and here make your voices known when we get to the class-portion of the playtest on the update edition.

In the end, I'm not sure many people that want mythic martials have to have it part of the Fighter? In fact, I think many people that want mythic martials have basically come to the conclusion that the Fighter chasis is too limiting to build a good mythic martial. Also mythic martial fans are usually 'big tent' people that don't care if the existing mundane Fighter or Fighter/ spellcaster exists as options.

As far as the majority being satisfied with half casters and such as a solution, I don't know.

 

[CreamCloud0]

It just occurred to me that the talk about mythic background fighter sounds like the martial equivalent of the sorcerer to the wizard, one earned their power through study, training and skill, the other because they were born into it or blessed in some way by an outside context entity.

Not saying that’s bad or anything but I do think there should be the mundane yet still heroic fighter who’s just that good because they worked for it

 

[Garthanos]

The mythic theme is a means to an end .... its one narrative that enables non-casters to be as badass as the 5e Wizard. A Fated Wielder like King Arthur and Elric of Melnibone is another narrative.

mythic archetypes at least have been woven this is from the Dragonlords of the Odyssey... and WOTC did some for their greco-roman themed book

 

[Minigiant]

It just occurred to me that the talk about mythic background fighter sounds like the martial equivalent of the sorcerer to the wizard, one earned their power through study, training and skill, the other because they were born into it or blessed in some way by an outside context entity.

Not saying that’s bad or anything but I do think there should be the mundane yet still heroic fighter who’s just that good because they worked for it

Well there is a mundane not magical but epic warrior
Well just look at comics. There are plenty of Epic Warriors in comics with no superpowers that chump the D&D fighter.
Just doing Ranged Weapons:

Deadshot, Deathstroke, Green and Red Arrow, Whole Bat Family with Batarang, Captain Boomerang
Bullseye, Both Hawkeyes, Punisher, Cap and his "replacements"/Alternates, Taskmaster,

5e just hamstring the fighter

• Combat aspects are spilt into multiple fighting styles but you only get 1 unless you ake a speciific subclass or take a feat.
• Speaking of feat. Basic aspects of comat advancement are gated into optional feats you don't get many of.
• Then other aspects are split into different subclasses so you can't ever get common aspects that have been split into different subclasses

This all cause the fighter to feel less heroic and nudges people to want mythic power.