D&D 5E Being strong and skilled is a magic of its own or, how I learned to stop worrying and love anime fightin' magic

A better question is how would you be able to tell a 10th level fighter from say a 15th level fighter from a 20th level fighter?
or even a level 5 one...
I'd consider even the 2nd or 3rd best 20th level. DnD is not made to support superheroes. Thor is a god.
Shrug, Hercules and Cuchulainn, and Perseus and many others in the 2e Players handbook list of example fighters were considered Demigods (Thor both parents were gods). Hercules was I believe elevated to full god at the finale of his story.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

or even a level 5 one...

Shrug, Hercules and Cuchulainn, and Perseus and many others in the 2e Players handbook list of example fighters were considered Demigods (Thor both parents were gods). Hercules was I believe elevated to full god at the finale of his story.
Hawkeye would definitely be a good fight against those dudes imo. Marvel Comics Hercules doesn't count. That guy can punch a planet in half.

There's a difference between myth and stories and game mechanics. Those examples are inspiration and not supposed to be taken literally as PCs. Even Bard killed a dragon with one non-magical arrow. David killed Goliath with a pebble. Homer is "listed" under Bard right? He wrote some books and never even cast vicious mockery once as far as we know.

Maybe you give fighters a once a decade instakill every 10 levels. I wouldn't do it though.

DnD is not supposed to be able to encompass everyone from Piccolo to Superman. Would some epic level powers for fighters be cool? Yes. But if some want fighters punching apart mountains or doing special beam cannon, it isn't the right game.
 

A better question is how would you be able to tell a 10th level fighter from say a 15th level fighter from a 20th level fighter?
The 20th lvl fighter kills things a lot quicker and gets killed a lot less. Probably has a much nicer suit of armor, car, house, etc. Is a 20th level fighter supposed to be taller or have super Saiyan hair or something?

To be honest, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 20th wizard and a cashier at Walmart if they're dressed similarly.
 

Hawkeye would definitely be a good fight against those dudes imo. Marvel Comics Hercules doesn't count.
He is bad enough in myth, wrestling with death to save a recently dead person is close to a martial resurrection trick.
That guy can punch a planet in half.
Hawkeyes equipment translates damn near to spells its super tech
There's a difference between myth and stories and game mechanics. Those examples are inspiration and not supposed to be taken literally as PCs.
The high levels nobody/few get to are called aspirational at least they are that way for casters... and the one more attack is meh.
Even Bard killed a dragon with one non-magical arrow.
The dragon was being bombarded by a city hit points wearing thin and we do not know the heirloom was non-magic. So I reserve on that one. Could see it as Bilbo doing a long distance inspiration pass to help him crit as well

David killed Goliath with a pebble.
Lugh Lamfada of the Tuatha de Danaan (Celtic God) used a sling and stone either just after joining them or when he became their leader and put out the eye of a giant he was the ultimate multi-classer in 4e you build him as a bard
Homer is "listed" under Bard right?
Not all the classes had as good of examples as the Fighter, maybe because hero -> fighter was near synonymous for a long time?
He wrote some books and never even cast vicious mockery once as far as we know.
And Alexander the Great claimed to be a demigod. There is an actual Bard named Taliesen from Celtic legend that works far better as inspiration his stories dripped with magic... also Merlin comes in as Bard/Druid. Legend does not differentiate their abilities much though.
Maybe you give fighters a once a decade instakill every 10 levels. I wouldn't do it though.
Aragorn did a martial army of undead with ahem a once in the story limit... not sure how to make that kind of thing work in game but I have been using an alternate reward called karma points...maybe making it take karma points a huge huge number can work (like an expensive ritual ingredient but its not money)

If it was real money you would be hiring mercenaries :) (elite ones of course)
DnD is not supposed to be able to encompass everyone from Piccolo to Superman. Would some epic level powers for fighters be cool? Yes. But if some want fighters punching apart mountains or doing special beam cannon, it isn't the right game.
There is going to be limits but looking at what casters do the limits are potentially less than many people think
 
Last edited:

I'd consider even the 2nd or 3rd best 20th level. DnD is not made to support superheroes. Thor is a god. Maybe the next edition will have some Immortals tier where that could be explored. And it would certainly be interesting. But the current game is not designed with that in mind.
Where you are int the order is not a representative of a a PC's power. You can be 3rd best but WAAAAAAAY down in power.

Hawkeye is not as impactful as a 20th level D&D wizard who has Gate, Maze, and Finger of Death.
An Ice devil is a hard fight for a 20th level PC solo. Can Hawkeye solo an Ice Devil?

This is why many fans use anime and manga as their example of 20th level fighters and monks. Because Anime and manga afford warriors the ability to be as impactful as an archmage. People like Mihawk, Kenshin, and Gourry for fighters or Roshi, Aang, and Jojo for monks would drop CR 14 threats solo (a hard battle for a solo)

Hector hung 1v1 with Achilles for a bit if you want to go with myth.
 

He is bad enough in myth, wrestling with death to save a recently dead person is close to a martial resurrection trick.

Hawkeyes equipment translates damn near to spells its super tech

The high levels nobody/few get to are called aspirational at least they are that way for casters... and the one more attack is meh.

The dragon was being bombarded by a city and we do not know the heirloom was non-magic. So I reserve on that one.


Lugh Lamfada of the Tuatha de Danaan (Celtic God) used a sling and stone either just before or when he became their leader and put out the eye of a giant he was the ultimate multi-classer in 4e you build him as a bard

And Alexander the Great claimed to be a demigod. There is an actual Bard named Taliesen from Celtic legend that works far better as inspiration his stories dripped with magic... also Merlin comes in as Bard/Druid. Legend does not differentiate their abilities much though.

Aragorn did a martial army of undead with ahem a once in the story limit... not sure how to make that kind of thing work in game but I have been using an alternate reward called karma points...maybe making it take karma points a huge huge number can work (like an expensive ritual ingredient but its not money)

There is going to be limits but looking at what casters do the limits are potentially less than many people think
I'd be all for Fighters getting some abilities that triggered off hit dice. They can then become a "long rest" class and work for 5 minutes too. I just think that codifying feats from anime or the Bible is not the way to go.
 

Where you are int the order is not a representative of a a PC's power. You can be 3rd best but WAAAAAAAY down in power.

Hawkeye is not as impactful as a 20th level D&D wizard who has Gate, Maze, and Finger of Death.
An Ice devil is a hard fight for a 20th level PC solo. Can Haweye solo an Ice Devil?

This is why many fans use anime and manga as their example of 20th level fighters and monks. Because Anime and manga afford warriors the ability to be as impactful as an archmage. People like Mihawk, Kenshin, and Gourry for fighters or Roshi, Aang, and Jojo for monks would drop CR 14 threats solo (a hard battle for a solo)
Why wouldn't Hawkeye be able to solo an ice devil? The fight could last a whole issue, but I don't see why he wouldn't be able to do it. Like I said, I'm all for giving fighters more options. That's where the game is headed anyways. Just keep it grounded. This game is not meant to encompass comics and anime. Inspiration? Sure! But this isn't a superhero or anime game at it's core.

The OP even likens Warlocks to Doctor Strange. Doctor Strange tosses around high level spells like bonus action cantrips.
 

I'd be all for Fighters getting some abilities that triggered off hit dice. They can then become a "long rest" class and work for 5 minutes too.
That is a possibility (or hit points so that their attributes and hit die size become the resource) I was thinking taking risk could be a resource (like you get an extra attack this round but trigger an opportunity attack for your enemy as a cost)
 

Why wouldn't Hawkeye be able to solo an ice devil? The fight could last a whole issue, but I don't see why he wouldn't be able to do it. Like I said, I'm all for giving fighters more options. That's where the game is headed anyways. Just keep it grounded. This game is not meant to encompass comics and anime. Inspiration? Sure! But this isn't a superhero or anime game at it's core.

The OP even likens Warlocks to Doctor Strange. Doctor Strange tosses around high level spells like bonus action cantrips.
In short. The Ice Devil's Wall of Ice would allow the devil to catch him and Hawkeye lacks the defense capabilities to survive the high damage bire/claw/tail or the slow of the spear/tail. In most comics and the movies, Hawkeye survives because nothing beyond human/robots mooks ever target him or he dealing with region level threats as him.

He struggles haaaard when strong stuff actually target him or fights stuff that aren't OHKOed by a trick arrow. Trick arrows that don't exist in D&D without becoming an Arcane archer and learning magic. He got punked by Quicksliver, Vision, and Iron Man in the movies. They made him duel Widow who is higher level but a rogue. A fighter struggling with a rogue in melee!

In 5e, anything over CR 10 has too many HP for him to take down before he gets in melee.
 

The 20th lvl fighter kills things a lot quicker and gets killed a lot less. Probably has a much nicer suit of armor, car, house, etc. Is a 20th level fighter supposed to be taller or have super Saiyan hair or something?

To be honest, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 20th wizard and a cashier at Walmart if they're dressed similarly.
I'd expect you to be able to tell them apart by the things they can do. A level 20 fighter is just the family-size version of a lvl 11 fighter.. fighter..now with 33% more attacks.

Their options to address challenges have evolved from attack..to attack a little more. And with attacks that don't do meaningfully more damage per strike than they did 10 or 15 levels prior.

Compare this to the change in capabilities for most spellcasters whose options have expanded enormously during that time period.
 

Remove ads

Top