D&D (2024) Put initial stat bonus in class not background

[d24454_modern]

Why don’t we go the Megaman/Bravely Default II route and just have all the abilities have set affects and damage?

 

[payn]

Maybe just get rid of background, race/lineage, and anything else and just go class?

 

[d24454_modern]

Maybe just get rid of background, race/lineage, and anything else and just go class?

Let’s get rid of class too. It’s too restrictive.

 

[delericho]

The only way it could be less direct and still slow for easy quick build packages would be to inject “suggested” and “example” language to each background. Which is fine, I’ll probably encourage that in my feedback.

If it's about quick build packages than they should go in class. Those will be pointing to default backgrounds, and will be picked to maximise the prime requisites anyway, so they might as well put the ASIs there too.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If it's about quick build packages than they should go in class. Those will be pointing to default backgrounds, and will be picked to maximise the prime requisites anyway, so they might as well put the ASIs there too.

No. Background should be impactful, and some parts of the character should sometimes be orthogonal to what makes the class stronger.

Not only that, but also the class would be even more limiting in perception than the background is. It would be much harder to get people to understand that it’s actually a floating bonus, and the listed stats are suggestions.

 

[Blue]

13th Age, a d20 that came out a bit before 5e, had an interesting way to do this. (This was a years and years before Tasha's.)

Race gave +2 to one of two ability scores.
Class gave +2 to one of two ability scores.
They couldn't be the same score.

So You have that a halfling wizard and a dwarven wizard, both have +2 Int for their class, but the halfling might have +2 Dex vs. the dwarven wizard with +2 Con. So race would impact how you built your character, but you would always have the right ability scores for your class so all race/class combos were on an even playing field.

 

[d24454_modern]

13th Age, a d20 that came out a bit before 5e, had an interesting way to do this. (This was a years and years before Tasha's.)

Race gave +2 to one of two ability scores.
Class gave +2 to one of two ability scores.
They couldn't be the same score.

So You have that a halfling wizard and a dwarven wizard, both have +2 Int for their class, but the halfling might have +2 Dex vs. the dwarven wizard with +2 Con. So race would impact how you built your character, but you would always have the right ability scores for your class so all race/class combos were on an even playing field.

What’s the point of that?

 

[delericho]

No. Background should be impactful

I actually agree. But ASIs are a terrible way of doing this.

Additionally, if backgrounds are just a collection of floating stuff then they won't be impactful. For that, the ability to customise must be limited.

, and some parts of the character should sometimes be orthogonal to what makes the class stronger.

Realistically, it won't matter. The vast majority of characters will have the ASIs put to bolster the player's chosen build, where the class is by far the most important element. That's one of the reasons putting ASIs in race was a bad idea - people chose their race based on which class they wanted. And putting fixed ASIs in background would be equally bad, for the same reason.

Making them floating but listing "suggestions" in backgrounds is the worst of both worlds. You're wasting space providing suggestions that by rights should just be ignored and you're muddying the waters where people fail to appreciate that they're just suggestions.

Not only that, but also the class would be even more limiting in perception than the background is. It would be much harder to get people to understand that it’s actually a floating bonus, and the listed stats are suggestions.

Each class already has a clearly marked "Quick Build" suggestion that identifies scores to emphasise. That's the place to put suggestions of this sort.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I actually agree. But ASIs are a terrible way of doing this.

Additionally, if backgrounds are just a collection of floating stuff then they won't be impactful. For that, the ability to customise must be limited.

Eh, I disagree, and we aren’t going to change each others minds, I imagine.

Realistically, it won't matter. The vast majority of characters will have the ASIs put to bolster the player's chosen build, where the class is by far the most important element. That's one of the reasons putting ASIs in race was a bad idea - people chose their race based on which class they wanted. And putting fixed ASIs in background would be equally bad, for the same reason.

The vast majority of players don’t optimize.

Making them floating but listing "suggestions" in backgrounds is the worst of both worlds. You're wasting space providing suggestions that by rights should just be ignored and you're muddying the waters where people fail to appreciate that they're just suggestions.

It’s absolutely the best of both worlds, as long as they make clear in the backgrounds that these are examples for everyone who doesn’t want to make every individual decision.

Each class already has a clearly marked "Quick Build" suggestion that identifies scores to emphasise. That's the place to put suggestions of this sort.

Again, that ends up restricting ASI choice more, and encourages CharOp thinking.

 

[DEFCON 1]

People don't always read from front to back, they also flip around and read here and there. If one were just glancing at the playtest, but we're familiar with 5e then one could easily assume backgrounds worked similar to 5e but now had stat mods attached to them.

None of these books should be written to save players from themselves.

If a player chooses not to read the Player's Handbook about character creation and chooses a Background from the pre-rendered list without reading the section and realizing their first option was to make their own... and then gets pissy after the fact that the Background they chose had two ASIs in abilities they didn't want and could have in fact had them on two abilities of their choosing but they just didn't realize it... that's on them.

WotC has enough stuff to put in these books without having to spend paragraph and after paragraph and bolded header after bolded header waving their arms to say "HEY! HEY YOU! READ THIS! THIS IS IMPORTANT!" It's a rulebook. The entire thing is important. If you don't read it... don't complain when you make mistakes.