D&D General Rangers should be built on a primary and secondary stat

So, what would each of the Rogue's four archetype level cover with regards to a Rogue (Ranger)? The Rogue gets them at levels 3,9,13, and 17. That might not be enough. If the Ranger was a Fighter subclass, it would basically be the druidic equivalent of the Eldritch Knight.
LevelThemeAbilities
3Hunter’s CoreStealth, ambush damage, tracking (Hunters Mark)
9Terrain MasteryFavoured terrain bonuses, enhanced stealth, terrain-based tricks
13PredatorProwl, Pounce, Weak spot strikes
17Lethal GhostMaximum sneak damage, Auto-Hide, camouflage

SKIRMISHER
LevelThemeAbilities
3SkirmisherNimble escape, bonus movement, avoid reactions, Dash pool
9Combat FlowSkirmish, force enemy movement, advantage from a dash
13CounterstrikeReactive strikes, split movement, lightfoot
17BlitzkriegBlitz damage, blurred movement, Multistrike
 

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I’d personally argue that it started with making Dex functionally interchangeable with Str for melee attacks in the PHB, meaning you could have good melee attack rolls, damage rolls, AC, ranged attack, and stealth in the same package with one good stat, and zero downside for dumping Str completely.

All the other quasi-equalisations like melee attacks with spellcasting stat have just been an extension of that have-cake-and-eat-it-too philosophy, and trying to keep up with the same power curve.

If you want a real butterfly-flapping-wings inflection point moment, I reckon that a LOT would have been different if rapiers had a d6 damage die from the start of 5e…
Yeah using dex for hit AND damage with finesse weapons was definitely an early version of it.
 

That's what I'd do if I'd make a Heartbreaker.
But it would be interesting if Spell DC were based on 2 or 3 scores.

Like instead of

Spell save DC = 8 + your spellcasting ability modifier + your Proficiency Bonus

it's
Spell save DC = 5 + your 1st spellcasting ability modifier + your 2nd spellcasting ability modifier + your Proficiency Bonus

So Ranger would be 5 + Wisdom modifier + Dexterity modifier + Proficiency Bonus
Wizard: 5 + Intelligence modifier + Wisdom modifier + Proficiency Bonus
Sorcerer: 5 + Charisma modifier + Intelligence modifier + Proficiency Bonus
Warlock: 5 + Charisma modifier + Constitution modifier + Proficiency Bonus
Cleric: 5 + Wisdom modifier + Charisma modifier + Proficiency Bonus
Druid: 5 + Wisdom modifier + ???? modifier + Proficiency Bonus
Paladin: 5 + Wisdom modifier + Strength modifier + Proficiency Bonus
don't need to change base DC if you make everything, including DCs as two ability based.

Fortitude save: str+con
reflex save: int+dex
will save: wis+cha

but I would tie most spell DCs to mental stats or Con
Sorcerer: cha+con
Druid: wis+int
Paladin: wis+cha
warlord: int+cha

ranger: int+wis
rogue: int+cha

Leave primary attack stats out of spell DCs


AC: 10+dex+int+armor, int can be a variable depending on the class(Con for barbarians, wis for monks, cha for some subclasses)


melee attacks: str+dex
melee damage: 1H str×2, 1H finesse str+dex, 2H damage str×3, 2Handed finesse str×2+dex,

ranged attacks: dex+wis
bow damage: str+dex
crossbow damage: dex(higher base damage, slow reload)

now as you have 2 attack stats, some features can replace one of those with one that fits your class/subclass

I.E:
true strike for wizard can replace either STR or DEX with INT or WIS
replace lower of STR or DEX with higher of INT or WIS, but not both.


but as for number of ability usages, I would avoid having abilities anything to do with it.
either a fixed amount at certain levels or prof bonus based.
 

"Make weapon attacks with your spellcasting stat" was one of the worst directions to head with 5e IMO. IIRC it started with Hexblade in Xanathar's, and spread from there throughout the design space.
At some point a lot of people seemed to stop seeing the stats as meaning anything in-world, and just instead being 'arbitrary attack stat 1-6'.

The constant gamification is something I really dislike about the 4th and 5th edition directions.
 

I think that would be cool to do for all classes but personally I'd shift Ranger to be a subclass of Rogue

Rogue (Dex/Int)
Dex = AC, finesse, initiative
Int = tactics, skills, infiltration

Ranger = Rogue + Wis (Survival, Perception)
I'd only accept ranger as a rogue or fighter subclass if we got warden, seeker, or shaman as a primal half-caster in its place.
 


the ranger spells lists should be loaded to the gills with trick arrows that would make hawkeye/green arrow proud (edited)

With the patriot arrow being the capstone arrow

The fact that what little work they have done isn't competitive with the equivalent of similar classes at similar levels is embarrassing.

as an additional point, I did a quick analysis of robin of sherwood and what spells would apply.

Magical or Supernatural Abilities Displayed by Robin in the Series


1. Herne’s Chosen / Spirit Communication

  • Moment: Robin receives visions and guidance from Herne, including cryptic dreams or Herne appearing to him in Sherwood.
  • D&D Spell:
    • Commune (3rd level) — speak directly with a divine spirit
    • Dream (5th level) — Herne often contacts Robin in his dreams
    • Divine Favor (1st level) — the idea that Herne blesses him with momentary power

2. Nature’s Ally / Moving Unseen Through Forest​

  • Moment: Robin and the Merry Men often evade enemies with uncanny ease in the woods.
  • D&D Spell:
    • Pass without Trace (2nd level) — silent movement through forest
    • Meld into Stone or Tree Stride (for dramatic escapes)
    • Speak with Animals — Robin's rapport with nature suggests this, even if not shown directly

3. Divine Protection or Forewarning​

  • Moment: Robin frequently senses danger or receives visions (especially before danger to Marion or a betrayal).
  • D&D Spell:
    • Augury or Foresight
    • Shield of Faith (thematically) as Herne’s protection
    • Sanctuary — during duels or escapes where enemies seem hesitant

4. Use of the Silver Arrow / Relic Magic​

  • Moment: The silver arrow is both a symbol and possible magical item, giving him a sacred right.
  • D&D Spell/Item:
    • Holy Avenger (reskinned for a bow)
    • Arrow of Slaying (artifact use)
    • Bless Weapon (paladin spell equivalent)

5. Charisma and Leadership​

  • Moment: Robin inspires the oppressed and instills fear in tyrants with almost supernatural charisma.
  • D&D Spell:
    • Command
    • Heroism
    • Mass Suggestion (for rousing rebel groups)

6. Avatar of the Wild God​

  • Moment: In some episodes, Robin seems to embody Herne’s power in a visible way (e.g., The Swords of Wayland).
  • D&D Effect:
    • Channel Divinity (Cleric or Paladin equivalent of Herne)
    • Conjure Woodland Beings — for summoning forest allies
    • Wrath of Nature or Guardian of Nature — newer 5e spells fitting Herne’s power
 




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