D&D 5E The 2024 Ranger is Actually Pretty Good (with numbers)

[Lord Twig]

I have been wanting to put this out there for a while. I keep hearing that the Ranger isn’t very good. Usually the complaint revolves around the amount of single-target damage they do. People do seem to accept that the Ranger brings other things to the table, utility, crowd control, and AOE damage, but that is then followed by saying that it still doesn’t make up for it’s low damage.

Probably the most well known examples are the builds by Treantmonk, but for some reason, unlike the other classes, he did not pair the highest damage weapon style with the highest damage subclass. He did two-weapon fighting, but paired it with the Fey Wanderer, then he did a ranged build and paired it with the Beast Master. The obvious build to me is to pair two-weapon fighting with the Beast Master subclass. Sure enough, when I ran the numbers, following his format, I improved on his numbers significantly.

I haven’t tried with a greatsword build. That might be even higher. Maybe another time.

Anyway, when I compared my Beast Master with Treantmonk’s Fey Wanderer, here is what I found:

Starting build:
Str 8, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 10
Background: Guide (+2 Dex, +1 Wis, Magic Initiate: Druid)
Shortsword (Vex), Scimitar (Nick)
Hunter’s Mark is used at every level.

Level one and two were no different of course. The ranger closes, casts Hunter’s Mark as a bonus action and attacks with shortsword, then scimitar. At second level we both pick up the Two-Weapon Fighting style feat.

1: BM: 12.1 vs. FW: 12.1
2: BM: 14.3 vs. FW: 14.3

Level three I get a primal companion (I used the Beast of the Land) and the Fey Wanderer adds Dreadful Strikes. The first round the Beast Master casts or places Hunter’s Mark and attacks. The second round the Beast Master commands the companion to close and attack as a bonus action. I assume that the primal companion can move 20’ in a straight line towards an enemy at least once per combat to get the +1d6 damage. They also knock the target prone if they are larger or smaller, which could give the Beast Master advantage, but I don’t figure that into the damage.

3: BM, round 1: 14.3, round 2-4: 19.9 = 18.5 vs. FW: 16.7

Level four I add +1 Dex and +1 Wis and he adds Defensive Duelist (which is a good feat).

4: BM, round 1: 15.6, round 2-4: 21.7 = 20.2 vs. FW: 18

Level five we both get extra attack and second level spells. By now the Rangers should have a couple of 1st level spells free to cast Cure Wounds, Jump, Longstrider, or whatever. They have a ton of really good 2nd level spells including Lesser Restoration, Magic Weapon, Pass without Trace, Silence, Spike Growth. They can also cast Aid or Barkskin to improve their defense.

For the first round of combat the Beast Master will cast Hunter’s Mark as a bonus action, both the Beast Master and companion will close, the Beast Master will use the Attack action and give the first attack to the companion. If the companion hits it will do an extra d6 and knock the target prone to give the Beast Master advantage on their shortsword attack, then finish off with the Nick attack from the scimitar. The following rounds the Beast Master will use their bonus action to command the companion to attack.

5: BM, round 1: 25.2, round 2-4: 30.1 = 28.9 vs. FW: 27.3
6: BM, round 1: 25.2, round 2-4: 30.1 = 28.9 vs. FW: 27.3

At level seven many people ignore a very important benefit of the Beast Master: Exceptional Training. This allows the Companion to take the Dash, Disengage, Dodge or Help action as a bonus action (when the Beast Master uses a bonus action to command it). This means that the Companion can give the Beast Master advantage on their first attack on all rounds they don’t use to place Hunter’s Mark.

7: BM, round 1: 25.2, round 2-4: 34.2 = 32 vs. FW: 27.3

At level eight we both add +2 Dex and the companion damage slips a little as its attack bonus doesn’t keep up.

8: BM, round 1: 28.1, round 2-4: 36.4 = 34.3 vs. FW: 29.6

Level nine gets fun. Third level spells come online and opening with Conjure Barrage is an excellent choice. This is ignored by Treantmonk because he is so focused on single target damage. But a bunch of damage to a lot of enemies can drastically speed up the fight. It should not be ignored.

So the Beast Master can continue to charge in casting Hunter’s Mark and attacking as usual or, if there are three or more opponents that they can get in the spell effect, they can start off with Conjure Barrage as an action, Hunter’s Mark as a bonus action (without using a spell slot), then charge in on round two. At 16.9 DPR per target, it gets big fast. 33.8 vs. two targets, 50.7 vs. three targets, 67.6 vs. four targets, etc. The Fey Wanderer could theoretically start casting Summon Fey, but he waits until level 11 so he can cast it without concentration and keep using Hunter’s Mark.

I’ll only run the numbers once for Conjure Barrage, but I will note when the damage for it goes up. It is hard to say exactly how often you will run into multiple enemies or how many there will be, but there will definitely be many times when it comes up in a game. This is one of the problems with “White Room” comparisons.

9: BM, round 1 Conjure Barrage: 67.6 (4 targets); BM round 2-4: 37.1 = 44.7 vs. FW: 29.6
9: BM, round 1: 28.1, round 2-4: 36.4 = 34.3 vs. FW: 29.6
10: BM, round 1 Conjure Barrage: 67.6 (4 targets); BM round 2-4: 37.1 = 44.7 vs. FW: 29.6
10: BM, round 1: 28.1, round 2-4: 36.4 = 34.3 vs. FW: 29.6

Level 11 is another fun level. The Beast Master gets Beastial Fury and the Fey Wanderer gets a minor boost to Dreadful Stikes and Fey Reinforcements.

11: BM, round 1: 37.8, round 2-4: 44.6 = 42.9 vs. FW: 33.5

Level 12 I boost the Beast Master Wisdom to 18 and the Fey Wanderer gets Warcaster. This boosts the Primal Companion attacks and the Beast Master’s spell DC. I’m not worried about losing concentration as the Ranger can now cast Hunter’s Mark so many times it hardly matters.

BM Conjure Barrage: 17.5/target
12: BM, round 1: 38.3, round 2-4: 46.9 = 44.8 vs. FW: 33.5

Level 13 both Rangers can no longer lose concentration on Hunter’s Mark and the Fey Wanderer starts casting Summon Fey using a 4th level slot. I think it is important to point out that the Beast Master is now not using any spell slots for their average DPS. If they use spell slots for an up-cast Conjure Barrage that is just extra DPS.

BM Conjure Barrage: 17.5 or 21/target
13: BM, round 1: 38.3, round 2-4: 46.9 = 44.8 vs. FW: 35.6

At level 14 the Fey Wanderer starts using Nature’s Veil to turn invisible. As it takes a bonus action, I ignore it for the Beast Master.

14: BM, round 1: 38.3, round 2-4: 46.9 = 44.8 vs. FW: 37.3
15: BM, round 1: 38.3, round 2-4: 46.9 = 44.8 vs. FW: 39.3

At level 16 I max the Beast Master’s Wisdom and Treantmonk takes Shadow Touched to get Wisdom to 18 and pick up Wrathful Smite.

16: BM, round 1: 43.2, round 2-4: 48.8 = 47.4 vs. FW: 42.9

Level 17th gives us Precise Hunter, so the Primal Companion can stop using the Help action and will just Dodge as a bonus action. They also both get 5th level spells and the Fey Wanderer, finally surpasses the Beast Master (who is using essentially free resources) by using all of their 5th and 4th level spell slots, plus a bunch more to cast Wrathful Smite. If the Beast Master opens up with a few Conjure Barrage spells and hits even a handful of enemies their DPS will shoot way above what the Fey Wanderer is doing.

BM Conjure Barrage: 17.5 or 21 or 25.2/target
17: BM, round 1: 43.6, round 2-4: 49.8 = 48.3 vs. FW: 50.2
18: BM, round 1: 43.6, round 2-4: 49.8 = 48.3 vs. FW: 50.2

At 19th level we both take the Epic Boon of Irresistible Offense.

19: BM, round 1: 44.6, round 2-4: 51.3 = 49.6 vs. FW: 54.9

Level 20 gives us Foe Slayer.

20: BM, round 1: 50.1, round 2-4: 58.8 = 56.6 vs. FW: 59.2

And there we have it. The Beast Master falls a little behind at tier 4, but not by much, and it is much stronger in tiers 2 and 3, where most of your game time will be. Add in the much better AOE damage the Ranger can do compared to the other classes, and there is no reason to believe that the Ranger is weak. This is even before factoring in the utility factor that their spells provide.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Edit - derp, got confused on weapon masteries. Nothing to see here, move along.

.....
For the first round of combat the Beast Master will cast Hunter’s Mark as a bonus action, both the Beast Master and companion will close, the Beast Master will use the Attack action and give the first attack to the companion. If the companion hits it will do an extra d6 and knock the target prone to give the Beast Master advantage on their shortsword attack, then finish off with the Nick attack from the scimitar. ...

This looks wrong. You seem to be using a bonus action to cast Hunter's Mark AND to attack with the scimitar in the same round. That would cut your damage by a third-ish here. If this is a mistake and applied elsewhere, the percent impact would be greater at lower levels.

 

[Zardnaar]

This looks wrong. You seem to be using a bonus action to cast Hunter's Mark AND to attack with the scimitar in the same round. That would cut your damage by a third-ish here. If this is a mistake and applied elsewhere, the percent impact would be greater at lower levels.

Nick does that.

In treantmonk sorcerer video he did another meh build.

Scorching ray sorcerer. He didn't use fae touch feat for hex though. 50% more damage.

And his ranger stuff meh.

He'd comparing one optimized builds with his rubbish. Eg Berzerker with Greatsword.

Wife ran a fae Wanderer lvl 7 and did better with it.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

This can't possibly be true or accurate.

The Ranger doesn't get Intelligence (Arithmetic) proficiency!

(This is a joke, to be clear.)

 

[Lord Twig]

This looks wrong. You seem to be using a bonus action to cast Hunter's Mark AND to attack with the scimitar in the same round. That would cut your damage by a third-ish here. If this is a mistake and applied elsewhere, the percent impact would be greater at lower levels.

Like Zardnaar pointed out, I am relying on Nick to get a third attack. The more attacks, the more you get out of Hunter's Mark.

Here is the math for 5th level:

Level 5
Shortsword attack 1 (2d6+4 (11 avg. damage, 7 crit damage), no advantage)
11 x 0.60 = 6.6
7 x 0.05 = 0.4

Shortsword attack 2 (2d6+4 (11 avg. damage, 7 crit damage), possible advantage from Vex)
11 x 0.60 x 0.4 = 2.6
7 x 0.05 x 0.4 = 0.1
11 x 0.84 x 0.6 = 5.5
7 x 0.10 x 0.6 = 0.4

Scimitar attack from Nick (2d6+4 (11 avg. damage, 7 crit damage), possible advantage from Vex)
11 x 0.60 x 0.26 = 1.7
7 x 0.05 x 0.26 = 0.1
11 x 0.84 x 0.74 = 6.8
7 x 0.10 x 0.74 = 0.5

Beast Attack 1 (1d8+5 (9.5 avg. damage, 4.5 crit damage))
9.5 x .55 = 5.2
4.5 x .05 = 0.2

+1d6 and Prone (1d6 (3.5 avg. damage), One round only)
3.5 x .6 / 4 = .5

The first round would be used to cast Hunter's Mark and give their first attack to the Beast Companion. This gives a DPR of 25.2 for the first round. The following rounds (2-4) the Ranger commands the Beast to attack as a bonus action and the DPR goes up to 30.1. If you add one round of 25.3 and three rounds of 30.1 then divide by four you get 28.9.

 

[FrogReaver]

You lost me when you started trying to add aoe damage and compare as if it were single target damage.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

And there we have it. The Beast Master falls a little behind at tier 4, but not by much, and it is much stronger in tiers 2 and 3, where most of your game time will be. Add in the much better AOE damage the Ranger can do compared to the other classes, and there is no reason to believe that the Ranger is weak. This is even before factoring in the utility factor that their spells provide.

This is a great comparison, nice work!

I'll echo the concern above that you're including AOE damage when the standard comparison is generally single-target. That's not necessarily wrong, it just complicates the comparisons. Even including AOE, your numbers that you're calculating seem pretty low compared to what other martial classes can put out as single-target.

So I'd say your comparison doesn't do anything though to change my mind that Ranger damage is too low and deserves to be higher (or maybe better solution would be improve their utility). I just don't feel like the utility they gain as a half-caster is worth the amount of damage they give up. That's totally subjective though.

 

[Zardnaar]

This is a great comparison, nice work!

I'll echo the concern above that you're including AOE damage when the standard comparison is generally single-target. That's not necessarily wrong, it just complicates the comparisons. Even including AOE, your numbers that you're calculating seem pretty low compared to what other martial classes can put out as single-target.

So I'd say your comparison doesn't do anything though to change my mind that Ranger damage is too low and deserves to be higher (or maybe better solution would be improve their utility). I just don't feel like the utility they gain as a half-caster is worth the amount of damage they give up. That's totally subjective though.

Well more attacks you make more chance of triggering colossus slayer.

The sharpshooter nerf makes horde breaker less useful.

Berzerker barbarian hits very hard though.
Pet or other subtypes for bonus damage. Gloomstalker is the weakest imho.

 

[Lord Twig]

I guess I phrased it in a confusing way, but I didn't actually add the AoE damage. I just listed it for comparison. That's why there are two numbers listed for the levels where I did the AoE damage. The first is AOE the second is single target, and I only included single target in the graph.

9: BM, round 1 Conjure Barrage: 67.6 (4 targets); BM round 2-4: 37.1 = 44.7 vs. FW: 29.6
9: BM, round 1: 28.1, round 2-4: 36.4 = 34.3 vs. FW: 29.6

So the first line is if you use Conjure Barrage against 4 targets on the first round which is 44.7 versus Treantmonk's Fey Wanderer DPS of 29.6. But the second line is single target, no AoE spells, and is 34.3 versus 29.6, which is still almost 5 points higher.

The point is that none of the big DPS leaders have anything close to the AoE damage that the Ranger can do. And their options for ranged damage is pretty limited. How many times have you started a battle and the Paladin or Fighter can only throw a couple of javelings for 1d6+Str damage? The ranger can totally blast every enemy in a 60' cone for 5d8 damage or at the very least fire a couple shots with a bow for 1d8+1d6+Dex damage.

This emphasis on focus fire is a little too extreme. Yes, in many cases it is a good idea to focus on one target and bring them down to reduce the amount of incoming damage. But if you have the Wizard drop a Fire Ball or Cone of Cold, and the Ranger open with Conjure Barage, the whole battle will be easier and the enemies will drop very quick after that.

Another misconception is that bringing down the boss is more important than taking out his guards. Sure the boss is the biggest threat, but if you have six guards beating on you, it is going to add up to a lot of damage. A couple of AoEs and a few hits to take out the guards allows you to focus on the boss without a lot of extra incoming damage.

Oh, and I included the Vengance Paladin to give some perspective, but it was the second highest DPR of all of Treantmonk's builds. So that is comparing my Ranger build to one of his best.

 

[Zardnaar]

Vengeance Paladins the vest obe. It will get a high rank as well on my tier list.

For brute damage I'm leaning towards fighter, barbarians and monk though. I don't rate brute damage by itself that high though.