D&D 5E The 2024 Ranger is Actually Pretty Good (with numbers)

[Horwath]

His Sorcerer Build was built around scorching ray.

Feat is shadow touched with hex. You get a free cast so can follow it up with scorching ray.

2d6 per ray to 3d6. I'm sure the Barbarian still wins the damage but comparing a damage feat to a damage feat is a fair comparison imho.

If one build isn't taking the feat that enables the damage and the other build does in a danage comparison........

to be fair, a sorcerer that dumps all resources on single target damage MUST out damage the barbarian.
Low HP, high damage, it's called a glass cannon.

That is why I would like option for a ranger similar to warlocks eldritch smite, if the ranger wants to burn ALL slots on bonus damage on weapon attacks, utility be damned, then ranger should be able to do it. Single target damage. Not interested in that poor excuse for AoE that is called Hail of thorns. And lightning arrow is not much better.

also, maybe a better choice would be HM spell from Fey touched, only V components(might be relevant) and force bonus damage instead of Necrotic(much less resistances).

And it's good to have Misty step without spell slot so you can combine it with an Action cast spell in the same round.

 

[Horwath]

Well my feat would be shadow touched:hex.

Just watched his tier 3 video. It would boost his unoptimised build up a tier and the optimized one up to high end of B or low A.

Hex is Enchantment school, you need Fey touched.

but I would follow Fey touched with warcaster at 8th just to be on the safe side.

spell sniper at 12th level

 

[Zardnaar]

Hex is Enchantment school, you need Fey touched.

but I would follow Fey touched with warcaster at 8th just to be on the safe side.

spell sniper at 12th level

Derp wrong one. Fey touched even better.

 

[Zardnaar]

Hex is Enchantment school, you need Fey touched.

but I would follow Fey touched with warcaster at 8th just to be on the safe side.

spell sniper at 12th level

I would probably go with fae, Shadow and warcaster.

Spell sniper effect you can get off a wand for 400g.

I don't care that much about -2 to hit occasionally. It's a 10% chance to hit less vs a 25-50% boost to damage.

Still a sorcerer. You have other options if required.

 

[Mistwell]

His Sorcerer Build was built around scorching ray.

Feat is shadow touched with hex. You get a free cast so can follow it up with scorching ray.

2d6 per ray to 3d6. I'm sure the Barbarian still wins the damage but comparing a damage feat to a damage feat is a fair comparison imho.

If one build isn't taking the feat that enables the damage and the other build does in a danage comparison........

How does shadow touched increase your damage by 50%? It's just one extra spell with one free slot a day, for sorc that isn't running out of spell slots.

 

[Mistwell]

That would be easier if DDB released statistics on which classes take which feats at what levels for 2024 rules if they have enough data yet.

He's making the choices he'd make at each level with an explanation. His explanations make sense. It's not intended to be some objective across the board measurement, it's just a thumb nail sketch of common choices at that level which make sense.

War Caster was the most popular feat in 2020 so I think it typically is a safe assumption, especially for casters who start with a 17 ability score that they can cap up to 18 at 4th level. But more players have been historically taking an ASI instead.

Yeah he tends to really value concentration saves.

If we are focusing on damage

He's not. He's not focusing on damage. That's the issue Zard has. Treantmonk is explicitly saying the build is not an all-damage build, but he is checking the damage for ordinary builds.

then war caster paired with scorching ray should need to be taken with a grain of salt. I would have to question what concentration spells on the sorcerer spell list are being used to maintain concentration on a build focused on direct damage using scorching ray.

The build isn't focused on scorching ray I believe he said 50% of spells are non-damaging control spells you'd use and 50% are scorching ray for damage, which is more realistic to how he though he'd make a sorcerer. Zard is taking this out of context and declaring it's a damage focused build because he checks the damage.

I think spell sniper is more likely on that build so as to not lose attacks to cover and add range. I would probably take careful spell to be party friendly with other spells, transmuted spell so my spell is not stymied by resistance or invulnerability, and rely on innate sorcery for advantage on attacks with scorching ray.

I have a vague recollection spell sniper is on that build as well.

 

[Ashrym]

He's not. He's not focusing on damage. That's the issue Zard has. Treantmonk is explicitly saying the build is not an all-damage build, but he is checking the damage for ordinary builds.

That might be where the disconnect is coming from.

It's a damage comparison where some builds are being compared that aren't as well designed for damage.

I don't think damage is a great comparison for classes in the first place because it ignores other important aspects, but if we're comparing damage shouldn't we be using builds focused on damage?

 

[Mistwell]

That might be where the disconnect is coming from.

It's a damage comparison where some builds are being compared that aren't as well designed for damage.

I don't think damage is a great comparison for classes in the first place because it ignores other important aspects, but if we're comparing damage shouldn't we be using builds focused on damage?

He's checking in on the new classes to see how their damage compares when built as an ordinary run of the mill build not focused on damage. Including the Barbarian, which for example takes these feats: Tough, Mage Slayer, and Speedy, none of which boosts damage despite many feats available for that build which would boost damage. He even mentions other feats which would boost damage, like Charger, and doesn't select them because he doesn't think most people would select a feat like Charger over one of those other feats. None of the classes were built specifically for doing damage.

 

[Zardnaar]

He's making the choices he'd make at each level with an explanation. His explanations make sense. It's not intended to be some objective across the board measurement, it's just a thumb nail sketch of common choices at that level which make sense.



Yeah he tends to really value concentration saves.


He's not. He's not focusing on damage. That's the issue Zard has. Treantmonk is explicitly saying the build is not an all-damage build, but he is checking the damage for ordinary builds.



The build isn't focused on scorching ray I believe he said 50% of spells are non-damaging control spells you'd use and 50% are scorching ray for damage, which is more realistic to how he though he'd make a sorcerer. Zard is taking this out of context and declaring it's a damage focused build because he checks the damage.



I have a vague recollection spell sniper is on that build as well.

His Sorcerer build revolves around scorching ray. Each ray is 2d6. Hex makes that 3d6. Just like Eldritch Blast.

A tier 3 scorching ray using a lvl 6 slot is 7 rays at 14d6. Hex makes that 21d6. It's an outright 50% damage boostexceptfor dragon sorcerer which is a bit less.

GWM feat by then is adding 4 damage per strike which is comparable to hex's 3.5 on average.

So his build for great weapons gas the feat you would expect to enable high danage. But he missed the feat that enables it for the scorching ray.

This isn't a specific build it's 1 feat. Or if it is his great sword builds would count as specific.

I added it up wrong. Looking at his numbers I think Sorcerer beats all his builds except the CME Bard which he didn't count.

New chromatic orb is really good poor man's fireball. So Sorcerer is probably number 1 in a real game. Wizard scorching ray CME build might beat it but that's a CME problem.

 

[Mistwell]

His Sorcerer build revolves around scorching ray. Each ray is 2d6. Hex makes that 3d6. Just like Eldritch Blast.

A tier 3 scorching ray using a lvl 6 slot is 7 rays at 14d6. Hex makes that 21d6. It's an outright 50% damage boostexceptfor dragon sorcerer which is a bit less.

GWM feat by then is adding 4 damage per strike which is comparable to hex's 3.5 on average.

So his build for great weapons gas the feat you would expect to enable high danage. But he missed the feat that enables it for the scorching ray.

This isn't a specific build it's 1 feat. Or if it is his great sword builds would count as specific.

I added it up wrong. Looking at his numbers I think Sorcerer beats all his builds except the CME Bard which he didn't count.

New chromatic orb is really good poor man's fireball. So Sorcerer is probably number 1 in a real game. Wizard scorching ray CME build might beat it but that's a CME problem.

Looking at his build, I think he's doing better than Hex. He's casting multiple spells per round, and cannot fit Hex in there which would do less damage than the second spell he casts? I dunno, maybe you need to lay out your build like he does and see if it adds up to more damage. I don't think it does. I think his is more optimized than yours.