D&D (2024) WotC is right to avoid the word "edition."

[GMforPowergamers]

Yes, exactly! That's my point.

except YOU are claiming they are biased without showing any reason to call them that

 

[Parmandur]

except YOU are claiming they are biased without showing any reason to call them that

We know that it is a skewed sample, by definition. As @billd91 pointed out, that's the default assumption, particularly when talking about a fraction of a percent of the total population. But more importantly, we don't know how the sample skews!

But the main point is thatbAL rules are not a good measure of the game, because they are artifical and rigid by nature.

 

[Iosue]

except YOU are claiming they are biased without showing any reason to call them that

They are biased because they are biased. They have an inherent selection bias. You can get results from such a sample, but that usually involves various statistical analyses to demonstrate that any differences are unlikely to be result of random chance. And even then, any study that involved such a sample would still note that there was a selection bias when noting the limitations of the study.

But we're not even really talking about obtaining results from a study that uses AL as a sample, are we?

 

[Reynard]

fighter can be simple... introduce a warlord, make that the complex weapon/non spell class

Isn't this the battlemaster?

 

[HammerMan]

show me better results then. notice that you are again arguing that this is so biased... but you can't show HOW it is biased.

Yes, exactly! That's my point.

except YOU are claiming they are biased without showing any reason to call them that

We know that it is a skewed sample, by definition. As @billd91 pointed out, that's the default assumption, particularly when talking about a fraction of a percent of the total population. But more importantly, we don't know how the sample

Both of you are being the problem here, but I want to use this to show the bigger issue.
As a community we stink at talking to each other (as someone into comics and movies I will not say we are the only ones) and this is a great time when we should be acting better.

Don’t try to win arguments try to talk and this place (and others) will be better for it. I am about to get back to game 3 of a playtest with 2 teenage new players and I would be embarrassed to show them this is how we talk here.

 

[HammerMan]

Isn't this the battlemaster?

No it isn’t.
And you have been in enough threads where this has been argued.

 

[Reynard]

No it isn’t.
And you have been in enough threads where this has been argued.

And yet people can't ever seem to show what they want when they ask for a "complex martial" that isn't already provided by multiple 3PPs. At this point one can assume there is nothing that could possibly fill this "need."

 

[Lanefan]

And yet people can't ever seem to show what they want when they ask for a "complex martial" that isn't already provided by multiple 3PPs. At this point one can assume there is nothing that could possibly fill this "need."

The cynic in me says the call for a complex martial comes largely from those who would have their cake and eat it too; who want a character with all the capabilities of a full-on Fighter but which also has spells or other quasi-magical abilities baked in for those times when fighting isn't the best course of action. Think Gish, or Warlord, or Swordsage; that type of thing, only leaning a bit toward the warrior side.

In other words, a jack-of-all-trades character that is in fact a master-of-all-trades - the type of character that is the bane of party play as it has no real weaknesses for the rest of the party to shore up.

Because otherwise, there's really only so much complexity you can put into a hit-it-till-it-falls-over warrior archetype before you either make it not a warrior any more or you make it something better suited to a supers game.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Both of you are being the problem here, but I want to use this to show the bigger issue.
As a community we stink at talking to each other (as someone into comics and movies I will not say we are the only ones) and this is a great time when we should be acting better.

Don’t try to win arguments try to talk and this place (and others) will be better for it. I am about to get back to game 3 of a playtest with 2 teenage new players and I would be embarrassed to show them this is how we talk here.

we are all in edition war mode... I admit it, but lets be honest you are effected by it too

No it isn’t.
And you have been in enough threads where this has been argued.

but part of it is the fact that we only get responses to things that enrage (funny how close to engage that is).

if I post 3 threads and 2 are positive about things I love and 1 about the problem I have with martial characters the only one that will get traction will be the martial one... and even then half of it will be likre this

The cynic in me says the call for a complex martial comes largely from those who would have their cake and eat it too;

see only trying to pick at and try to fight about it.

who want a character with all the capabilities of a full-on Fighter but which also has spells or other quasi-magical abilities baked in for those times when fighting isn't the best course of action. Think Gish, or Warlord, or Swordsage; that type of thing, only leaning a bit toward the warrior side.

lol you mean a hexblade or a warrior cleric or bard, or the bladesinger.... you know the classes that are just that.

In other words, a jack-of-all-trades character that is in fact a master-of-all-trades

again you are mistaken for "we want things as good as what others have" for "give us everything" but I can see how it's hard to see when the casters are pretty close to having it all

Because otherwise, there's really only so much complexity you can put into a hit-it-till-it-falls-over warrior archetype before you either make it not a warrior any more or you make it something better suited to a supers game.

look to 4e to manage to not be a super game, not be a non warrior... but still have options and power.

 

[HammerMan]

And yet people can't ever seem to show what they want when they ask for a "complex martial" that isn't already provided by multiple 3PPs. At this point one can assume there is nothing that could possibly fill this "need."

Well you can start with official content and not 3pp