D&D 5E Is the imbalance between classes in 5e accidental or by design?

[GMforPowergamers]

For the 4th time, I'll happily run a high level (lets go 17th this time) one shot, cleaving closely to the DMG encounter creation/ adventuring day guidelines, and ill run it for 5 of you.

no need... just look at creating those characters

 

[Flamestrike]

no need... just look at creating those characters

Right, pick a level. You can run the Wizard.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Yeah. The literally 3 times now

Actual empirical evidence, instead of the standard handwringing on here.

that isn't empirical evidence... of anything.

I CAN make a single 1 shot that favors the fighter. I CAN'T make multi campaigns do that.

Fine. Lets run a 3rd level one shot. Ill DM. You can be the Wizard. I'll DM and run the other 3 PC's.

wow... the DM runs 3 PCs... what could ever be more normal...

Are you in? I'll take 'No' as a concession you know Im right.

Your not right, you are just keen to stack the deck.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Right, pick a level. You can run the Wizard.

no need to run... lets look at the characters...


level 17 wizard has (no gold no treasure) 38 spells known. that is 38 separate abilities they get to choose form a list of 100's of pre built rule exceptions. now assuming they have a 20 INT (not always a given in my games) they only can prep 22 of those you also get 5 cantrips
now at least 1 choice (find familiar) can be cast months and levels in advanced to give you an entire extra feature
some of those 38 can be rituals (no need to prep)



Edit: Counter Proposal... draw up a dungeon for a mid level group... recruit 5 players. Make them run 1 group with no casters and 1 group with all casters through the same dungeon... tell us what group has it easier.

 

[Flamestrike]

no need to run... lets look at the characters...

No, no Schroedingers wizard.

Pick a level. You play the Wizard. Lets see if it actually IN PLAY is more powerful.

I can have 3-4 other people play other classes. Im just offering because it speeds things up.

You in? Or do I win by default?

 

[Maxperson]

You’ve modified that by increasing spell durations. But you don’t get to claim that wizards are balanced RAW when a) you are using an alternate rule; and b) that alternate rule doesn’t work and you have to houserule it to make it work.

It works just fine. I've been playing it with my group for 3 campaigns now(about a year and a half) with no changes to spells and a wizard in each campaign. No issues. The changes to the spells are nice, but not necessary for the alternate resting rule to work.

 

[Micah Sweet]

what is that?

Dungeon Crawl Classics. Magic is potentially powerful, but there are serious risks of death, mutation, and eternal damnation depending on much you use and how unlucky you are.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Or do I win by default?

Asking this question makes the opposite instantly true.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

No, no Schroedingers wizard.

what are you talking about? if they are balanced they should have the same number of options... or at least close right?

Pick a level. You play the Wizard. Lets see if it actually IN PLAY is more powerful.

I can have 3-4 other people play other classes. Im just offering because it speeds things up.

Counter Proposal... draw up a dungeon for a mid level group... recruit 5 players. Make them run 1 group with no casters and 1 group with all casters through the same dungeon... tell us what group has it easier.


my go to would be a 9th level dungeon
party 1 human champion fighter, 1 hafling thief rogue, 1 Elf battle master fighter, 1 half elf open hand monk, and 1 dwarf assassine rogue.
party 2 teifling hexblade warlock, drow bladesinger wizard, half elf sword bard, dwarf wild fire druid, and human war cleric

 

[Minigiant]

For the 4th time, I'll happily run a high level (lets go 17th this time) one shot, cleaving closely to the DMG encounter creation/ adventuring day guidelines, and ill run it for 5 of you

I think this goes back to what I said my first comment in the thread.

The DMG Guidelines for adventure are very unpopular BUT the only way to balance a full caster the way D&D fans want casters.

Have Cake and Eat Cake.

D&D fans want Super Casters but don't want to be force into long dungeons when the DM is more antagonistic against them in obstacles and treasure.

The question is this setup deliberately and purposely crafted to be this way or an accident of the community preferences blowing it up.