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Level Up (A5E) Do abilities apply to passive checks?

noodohs

Explorer
Finally getting around to properly creating a character in preparation for my first A5e game, but I am finding some things are... less than clear. At the moment, I am trying to figure out what I am intended to do with passive checks. In the AG, it says:

"To determine a character’s total for a passive check, add 10 + all the modifiers that normally apply to the check."

To me, this says that the only things I should be adding to the base of 10 are any modifiers that are always added. So if I'm proficient, I add my proficiency bonus, if I have expertise, I add +3, etc. Part of me still clings to the O5e ways, though, and it feels like if there is a relevant ability, it should be added. But I can't find any guidance on this other than some discussions and interpretations here on the forum, with some people saying that you should add the "commonly used" ability to it. In the case of Perception, this would be Wisdom, but again it doesn't explicitly state I should add that anywhere that I can find. Instead, under the skills section, it says:

"The Narrator determines which ability score is called for in a given situation."

Given that, it doesn't seem like any particular ability can be said to be "normally applied to the check," so that suggests that the Narrator should determine what ability should be added to my passive score in any given situation. If that's the case, passive checks kinda seem like more hassle than they should be since it feels (to me) like the point of a passive check is to have a single, fixed number that the Narrator can write down and have easy access to without also needing every players' ability modifiers, determining which ability is relevant, and then having to math them for that particular situation. So what is the intent here? If we are supposed to add the "commonly used" ability, I would like to suggest that be explicitly stated to avoid arguments at the table.
 

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the passive checks section begins with:
A passive check is a special kind of ability check
this is because in a5e, just like in o5e, "skill" checks do not exist - skills simply modify ability checks. so, if you threw a passive check as a player, you would throw out a wisdom perception passive check, or an intelligence perception passive check, or even just a wisdom passive check, but never just a perception passive check, because then it is no longer an ability check and thus no longer a passive check.
 

noodohs

Explorer
this is because in a5e, just like in o5e, "skill" checks do not exist - skills simply modify ability checks.
I would actually argue that in A5e, it's quite the opposite. Skill checks exist completely independently of ability checks because any ability can be used with any skill. Ergo, ability bonuses modify skill checks, not the other way around. Having said that, still doesn't answer my question.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Finally getting around to properly creating a character in preparation for my first A5e game, but I am finding some things are... less than clear. At the moment, I am trying to figure out what I am intended to do with passive checks. In the AG, it says:

"To determine a character’s total for a passive check, add 10 + all the modifiers that normally apply to the check."

To me, this says that the only things I should be adding to the base of 10 are any modifiers that are always added. So if I'm proficient, I add my proficiency bonus, if I have expertise, I add +3, etc. Part of me still clings to the O5e ways, though, and it feels like if there is a relevant ability, it should be added. But I can't find any guidance on this other than some discussions and interpretations here on the forum, with some people saying that you should add the "commonly used" ability to it. In the case of Perception, this would be Wisdom, but again it doesn't explicitly state I should add that anywhere that I can find. Instead, under the skills section, it says:

"The Narrator determines which ability score is called for in a given situation."

Given that, it doesn't seem like any particular ability can be said to be "normally applied to the check," so that suggests that the Narrator should determine what ability should be added to my passive score in any given situation. If that's the case, passive checks kinda seem like more hassle than they should be since it feels (to me) like the point of a passive check is to have a single, fixed number that the Narrator can write down and have easy access to without also needing every players' ability modifiers, determining which ability is relevant, and then having to math them for that particular situation. So what is the intent here? If we are supposed to add the "commonly used" ability, I would like to suggest that be explicitly stated to avoid arguments at the table.
Yep, you’ve got it. Passive checks are just a handy list of average check scores that come up frequently. That’s why we have blank passive check spaces on the character sheet.
 

noodohs

Explorer
Yep, you’ve got it. Passive checks are just a handy list of average check scores that come up frequently. That’s why we have blank passive check spaces on the character sheet.
But... which is it... I don't have it at all, that's why I was asking.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
But... which is it... I don't have it at all, that's why I was asking.
Sorry, what were the options?

It’s just a conveniently pre-calculated ability check. It’s whatever you think you’ll use frequently. If you make Dex (Stealth) checks a lot or Int (Arcana), record those.
 

noodohs

Explorer
Sorry, what were the options?

It’s just a conveniently pre-calculated ability check. It’s whatever you think you’ll use frequently. If you make Dex (Stealth) checks a lot or Int (Arcana), record those.
I asked what the intent is. Should the passive skills have any abilities included in the total? That is, is my passive perception just 10 + proficiency + other bonuses from expertise and the like OR is it 10 + WIS + proficiency + etc? As I indicated, as written, it seems to me that it should be the former, but if that's not the case and it's supposed to be the latter, I'd love to have that explicitly stated somewhere in the rules. As a player, I have no idea what I'll use frequently as it's up to the Narrator to decide what to use. There are more details about the question in my original post, I just re-summarized them here.
 


Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I asked what the intent is. Should the passive skills have any abilities included in the total? That is, is my passive perception just 10 + proficiency + other bonuses from expertise and the like OR is it 10 + WIS + proficiency + etc? As I indicated, as written, it seems to me that it should be the former, but if that's not the case and it's supposed to be the latter, I'd love to have that explicitly stated somewhere in the rules. As a player, I have no idea what I'll use frequently as it's up to the Narrator to decide what to use. There are more details about the question in my original post, I just re-summarized them here.
I’m really sorry, I’m not trying to be obtuse, I promise, but I honestly don’t understand the question.

A passive skill is basically a commonly used check with an average roll of 10. It can be any ability/skill check. The most common is Wisdom (Perception).
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
I’m really sorry, I’m not trying to be obtuse, I promise, but I honestly don’t understand the question.

A passive skill is basically a commonly used check with an average roll of 10. It can be any ability/skill check. The most common is Wisdom (Perception).
The problem is that the AG doesn't say what those "most common" abilities are--it kind of assumes that you already know from playing D&D. I don't think it's a huge problem, but as you can see, it's one that can lead to confusion.
 

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