D&D General 6-8 encounters (combat?)

[Maxperson]

In my experience at third level or so and beyond Dearly encounters will not TPK a party and 3 deadly encounters will cover the daily budget

"Deadly" is too broad to really say that with. 2000xp is a deadly encounter for a 5th level group of 4, but so is 10,000. Deadly just begins for that group at 2k.

And again, I'm not talking about 3 encounters. If the 5MWD is in effect, it MUST be doable with one single encounter that covers the entire XP budget.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Consider. Psychological depression is like an extended period of time with low hit points that difficult to recover.

In D&D terms, low hit points come from low morale.

One nights sleep wont necessarily refresh morale.

It might refresh in a single day. Or be days or weeks later. Even years.

Ah. I understand. It's not that all player characters are cursed. It's that they're all suffering from severe clinical depression ala Darkest Dungeon.

That doesn't actually make it any less niche in my eyes than the curse explanation. Not everyone wants to run Darkest Dungeon: The Campaign. But you do you.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Again mate, I am more than happy to show you.

You create an 11th level Wizard (with 6th level spells). I'll create a Fighter. We can run an adventure together. We can toss in a Rogue as well (they're resource neutral) and someone can play a Cleric (so we have the big 4).

Heck, you can play BOTH of the casters.

There will be a doom clock. You will have 6-8 encounters, closely adhering to the XP/ Adventuring Day chart. There will be time for 2-3 short rests.

I assure you that the Wizard is on par with the other PCs at that rest/ encounter frequency.

Ill also let a 3rd party - of your choice - vet the adventure first to prove no weirdness (no AMF's or anything silly like that). Just a standard adventure, following the DMG guidelines, with a theme in mind (Demons incursion perhaps?).

and a single adventure proves nothing... when you run 20 and 3 or 4 times the fighter shines and those 3 or 4 times the rogue does too but the rogue shines 2 or 3 MORE times when the fighter doesn't (so total 5-7) and the 13-15 adventures left the casters dominate... that campaign with ONLY 20 adventures might go from 4th to 9th level... and the casters are dominating.

I have never and will never say "No fighter has ever had any adventure where over the course of that 1 day the fact that they do more damage and take more damage (only thing the class shines at) mattered... some of those times they save the day and really shine"... but any adventure that IS NOT about taking and dealing damage willfind the fighter has next to no tools to even contribute.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

@GMforPowergamers

If you want to see how it's done, send me a character sheet for your Wizard (and Cleric if you want one).

I'll do the other two PC's and knock up the dungeon.

I don't doubt YOU can make a single adventure where the fighter shines... I can make one where fighters might as well sit out, neither proves how campaigns flow.

 

[Yaarel]

Ah. I understand. It's not that all player characters are cursed. It's that they're all suffering from severe clinical depression ala Darkest Dungeon.

That doesn't actually make it any less niche in my eyes than the curse explanation. Not everyone wants to run Darkest Dungeon: The Campaign. But you do you.

It need not be severe or clinical.

Hit points are more than meat.

Almost all hit points have nothing to do with meat.

It can be lack of enthusiasm. Lack of inspiration. Lack of luck. Not being in shape.

Refresh is MAXIMUM.

Most people are not at peak all the time.

Choosing when to be at peak is also a thing. Like an olympic athlete ready to go.

 

[Vaalingrade]

What is with this trend now of demanding people do work to prove other people's points?

 

[Fanaelialae]

I understand the need to have complex classes, but do we really need to have the same complexity and choice of options for all classes. There are players who don’t play wizard because they prefer simpler play, do they ask to simplify wizard in order to play them?

The need for complex options as well as a balanced adventuring day, is for players in need of challenge and strategic thinking, which is only one aspect of DnD. We can have classes and play that cover less this aspect and more other aspect of the game.

IMO, all of the core classes should be equally viable.

That said, I'm not against basic versions of classes (along the lines of the 4e Essentials Slayer class) that are stripped down and simplified variants of a class, for anyone who wants an extremely simple class.

I just don't think it should be the core version of the class. IME, plenty of people who want to play fighters aren't averse to complexity. They simply want to engage with the fantasy of playing a weapon master. Then they actually try the class and are disappointed because the gameplay is essentially turn on auto-attack and come back in 5 minutes. That shouldn't be the default for any core class.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The thing people forget about wizards is it's very easy for them to mess up. Cast the wrong spells and they can be completely ineffectual. If all you can do is hit things with a sword you are not going to get the blame when your bad choice leads to a TPK.

very true, the wizard can prep wrong. The wizard can target a save that has a +11 instead of the one that has +0. The wizard can throw a enervation just to learn the creature is immune to necrotic... and in that last case if there go to at will is Toll the Dead, boy is there a problem.

the fighter doesn't get to prep. the fighter NEVER gets to make the choice to be great or terrible.

many years ago now I saw a DM run at a store a bunch of new players in an adventures with undead... all of the minions had 'immune to non magic non silver weapons' and none of the PCs had magic weapons or silver...the idiot braged how they missed the clue to find the hidden silver knives... dude even if the fighter with great weapon fighting and an axe found 3 silver knives would he have taken one??

 

[GMforPowergamers]

a) I'm having difficulty recalling a time at my table that a caster cast the wrong spell and caused a TPK. YMMV

I also can not name a TPK... I can remember twice in this edition and a HUGE time in 2e when prep casters got caught with there pants down... and had REALLY bad adventureing days. BTW the 2e example I was the wizard.

b) A fighter can absolutely cause a TPK by engaging the wrong creature, thereby allowing the wrong enemies to engage the party backline and permitting the squishies to get squashed (or even just having to waste resources protecting themselves, rather than bringing a quick conclusion to the fight).

 

[Fanaelialae]

It need not be severe or clinical.

Hit points are more than meat.

Almost all hit points have nothing to do with meat.

Depression that lasts for years and impacts your capabilities isn't severe or clinical? It's more than hit points, it's spells and all kinds of other features, including non-magical abilities like Rage.

If you want, I can ask my wife whether she thinks it would constitute severe or clinical depression (she has a master's degree in social work) but I'm 99.99% sure that she would say that it would.