D&D General 6-8 encounters (combat?)

[iserith]

Doom cloth implies a known doom.

Time pressure implies unknown actions, major and minor, by minor and major NPCs.

Again the whole discussion is about draining resources with 6-8 encounters.

The Doom Clock is the pressure to make the PCs press forward to to Henchmen Patrol #4, Henchman Patrol #5, Henchman Lunchroom Squad, and the Boss instead of heading home since that are down to 40% resources.

Reverend Myrtle the Life Cleric: Oh my Lord of the Sun. Answer my cry. How come anytime we head home when I have half my spells, we get attacked by monsters but if we head back and I am out of spells?... no bandits. No malicious fey. No wild animal. Just a peaceful trek home

I don't think those two terms necessarily imply the players knowing or not knowing the stakes. That appears to be something you're introducing into their definitions. In my games at least, you'll know the stakes, always. That's so you as a player can make informed decisions.

As for the DM handwaving encounters based on the PCs' current resources, you will never see me doing that. If the rolls say there's an encounter, you're getting one regardless of the current state of your hit points, hit dice, or spell slots. What you do in the face of that is up to you.

 

[iserith]

~Plays Sonic drowning music on loop~

Yeah... 'enjoyment.'.

I don't understand this reference.

 

[tetrasodium]

I can't speak to how you handle stress, but I find it enhances play by creating more opportunities for meaningful decisions by the players. The more of those they get to make per unit of game time increases engagement in my experience. It also help support the vision of a setting that is in motion and that moves ahead even without the PCs. And, to the topic of the thread, it can get the players into the sweet spot of encounters per adventuring day where in my view the game just works better.

A doom clock is not stress though. It's more like an autoscrolling video game level in am easy game set to the easiest difficulty & probably with cheat codes thanks to dual track rest schedule classes, death saves, magic items "optional", & super heroic PCs. Doom clocks are simply a crude club of a tool & they weren't ever well tuned or delicate tools that could be used with precision & finesse.

I don't understand this reference.

Spoiler: you will if you click play

[/spoler]

 

[Flamestrike]

I have also just finished running a Paizo campaign (Legacy of Fire) and it doesn’t really support your point.

It's a different system.

 

[iserith]

A doom clock is not stress though. It's more like an autoscrolling video game level in am easy game set to the easiest difficulty & probably with cheat codes thanks to dual track rest schedule classes, death saves, magic items "optional", & super heroic PCs. Doom clocks are simply a crude club of a tool & they weren't ever well tuned or delicate tools that could be used with precision & finesse.

Spoiler: you will if you click play

[/spoler]

Still not understanding the video game references. I don't play video games. The rest of your comments don't track for me.

I don't see doom clocks as a crude tool though. It's a way to make the stakes clear and to create trade-offs and meaningful decisions. As an added effect, it can push players forward when they might otherwise decide to delay and recover resources. Or, they can decide they care more about the lives of their characters, rest anyway and so the clock strikes midnight, something bad happens, and we play on in the aftermath.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I don't understand this reference.

In the Sonic games, whenever you are underwater, you have an oxygen counter. Whenever that counter is running low, a music loop plays, increasing in intensity as it gets lower even as the water in the level makes you move slower and the intense distraction of the music makes you play worse until you either surface or die.

It is, to many, the most stressful sequence in all of gaming.

And that's what it feels like to me whenever the DM puts the game on a clock in order to force a playstyle on me. I can't stop an investigate, can't take time to learn about the world, can't do fun RP. I Just. Have. To Make. The Music. Stop.

 

[Vaalingrade]

The DM is expected to challenge the party, there are rules and expectations for that - sure - The DM shouldn't be a jerk about it. But saying the DM can't throw curve balls and the occasional knuckleball? That just seems really strange.

1) They're not expected to challenge the part either all the time or to a degree the group doesn't want.

2) A curve ball or a knuckleball is NOT the same as hitting someone when they're down.

 

[iserith]

In the Sonic games, whenever you are underwater, you have an oxygen counter. Whenever that counter is running low, a music loop plays, increasing in intensity as it gets lower even as the water in the level makes you move slower and the intense distraction of the music makes you play worse until you either surface or die.

It is, to many, the most stressful sequence in all of gaming.

And that's what it feels like to me whenever the DM puts the game on a clock in order to force a playstyle on me. I can't stop an investigate, can't take time to learn about the world, can't do fun RP. I Just. Have. To Make. The Music. Stop.

I think in this case the question is what happens if the clock runs out. I am of the philosophy that success and failure should both be fun for the players, even if failure isn't a great outcome for the characters. The rules themselves back up this thinking. In what I would consider an ideal game, there are multiple sources of time pressure running at once and, depending on how things play out, you simply may not be able to stop all of them. So you succeed in some places, fail in others, the situation is changed for good or for ill, then we play on in the face of that.

If the clock doesn't allow for some amount of investigation and interaction, then that's a simple matter of allowing for it. It's not an inherent feature of time pressure that the DM must run it poorly. That's just how it appears to be imagined by its detractors in these sorts of discussions.

 

[Mort]

1) They're not expected to challenge the part either all the time or to a degree the group doesn't want.

That's something that needs to be established at the get-go. One reason Session 0s and the like are extremely important.

If the group thinks they are playing superheroes and the DM thinks they are playing survival horror, there will be a big problem.

2) A curve ball or a knuckleball is NOT the same as hitting someone when they're down.

Hitting someone when they are at 40% is NOT hitting them when they are down. It's hitting them when they are not at peak.

 

[Maxperson]

If you attack PCs after 8 encounters, they will want to end the day earlier to have resources to fight sudden late day ambushes.

That's what's so great about 6-8. #'s 6, 7 and 8 can all be the encounter on the way home, and if it's an easy encounter, you won't really need much in the way of resources, so it COULD be a #9. Remember, the 6-8 is medium and hard. You can vary it a bit by adding deadly and easy encounters, so the PCs can't rest their laurels on no encounters after the 8th.

There is an understanding that DM will never arbitrarily and purposely gank you when you are weak. Or you'll never press on.

Sure, but see above.