D&D 5E The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D

[DND_Reborn]

So, this post by @James Gasik really hit home and got me thinking about something...

Yeah, to the point that every time someone complains they "break the game", I have to point out that not only are they part of the game, but they have been for a long time. Goodberry, Tiny Hut, Magnificient Mansion, Teleport, Fly- all these spells and more, are legacies.

But you know what edition got rid of them, for the most part?

And was derided for not "feeling like D&D"?

And so they were brought back for that very reason?

Amusing, isn't it?

For some reason (I really cannot tell you why!) the last few years I've been playing 5E I've desired a "low-magic" style setting/game. I have been all of keeping it more mundane, heroic but not "superheroic", keeping magic and magical items rare, making the game gritty with easier death and harder recovery.

And I don't know WHY I have felt this way...

I began decades ago with B/X and AD&D and I was perfectly happy up to 3rd edition with flying wizards, teleportation, and similar magic mention in the quote above. I never had any problem with mighty magic weapons and regions of mystical mysteries lost for ages, where strange and unusual were common occurrences.

But, for some unknown reason, in 5E I don't seem to want it anymore, while it is part of the game (as James says...) and has been for years.

So, I am not seeking answers, but if anyone has thoughts or wants to discuss it, please let me know. It would be nice if I could find a reason why...

 

[Lanefan]

A theory: in the 0e-1e-early 2e days, magic was "extra". Most PCs and nearly all NPCs would be non-casters, or at least non-mages. Perhaps more important, those characters who could cast couldn't do it very often, until high level anyway. Casting was also less reliable, and easier to interrupt, and some spells (e.g. Teleport, Poly Other) carried serious risk for either the caster or the target. Magic items were common, but as they could be destroyed fairly easily they were seen as only being important while you had them. And as no DM could ever know what items her party would have at any given time, magic items weren't built in to the math of the game other than magic weapons being required to hit some creatures. That said, when it did work magic was often special and sometimes spectacular.

Then came 3e, with item creation for all made easy and (relatively) cheap, along with a much greater number of classes and PrCs that could cast, or quasi-cast. Items also became much harder to destroy; and were built in to the game's math expectations. Bards became mostly-full casters that could start at 1st level, rather than Fighter-Thieves with something extra tacked on. But there were still some hard limits on how many spells anyone could cast in a day.

With 4e, item destruction went away completely and a few classes were given always-on casting. Some classes that would normally have been non-casters were given quasi-magical abilities. Also, by now any serious risk associated with casting is gone; and casting is much harder to interrupt.

And now there's 5e, where items have decreased in importance somewhat but casting has gone nuts. Casters can cast something every round, all day long if they want to. A far smaller fraction of the classes are fully non-casters, when compared with 0e-1e. Which means, in comparison to 0e-1e everyone can cast now - you get and spell, and you get a spell, and you...etc.

End result: magic has gone from being extra to being expected; and thus from exciting to ho-hum.

Answers there are, but we can get to those later.

 

[tetrasodium]

I think tiny hut is the best example. Up till at least 3.x it was basically a tent the Wizard could use to rget in a good night's sleep if there was a storm IF they dedicated a spell slot to it the last time they took a rest. Now in 5e tiny hut is an improved version of the much higher level force cube spell that makes an invincible bunker for a group of almost any table size plus some npcs... Except that bunker does not just protect against a storm., now it protects against toxic air, active volcanos, ancient dragons, vision & much more. It's not really even believable as a power for marvel super heroes, Gene grey/Phoenix could do some of that but only SOME and telekinesis/telepathy was pretty much of her entire powerset... Tiny hit is a footnote & the same munchkinize dial gets applied all over in 5e.

edit wizards & other casters used to walk around with encounter ending spells in their pocket but at the same time if you ask a wizard to scout ahead here's what you got:

• Wizard: holy @W$@#@$ that squirrel had huge teeth & the acorn it was eating had a lethal looking point
• partymg like a giant squirrel?
• Wizard: Well the teeth were
• party: so... like a squirrel version of a direwolf or something? did the acorn look magical
• druid: I'll check it out
• Fighter: I'll go with him to be safe
• ...
• dm: and with that the totally mundane squirrel is killed with a toe kick from SirBob

Now wizards aren't really concerned about being in melee with actual level appropriate monsters & cast spells all day but little of it is impressive & it's almost never back pocket ace encounter ending power levelsif things go sideways but everyone else is also uptuned in ways that ensure nobody will care even if they go sideways.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So, this post by @James Gasik really hit home and got me thinking about something...


For some reason (I really cannot tell you why!) the last few years I've been playing 5E I've desired a "low-magic" style setting/game. I have been all of keeping it more mundane, heroic but not "superheroic", keeping magic and magical items rare, making the game gritty with easier death and harder recovery.

And I don't know WHY I have felt this way...

I began decades ago with B/X and AD&D and I was perfectly happy up to 3rd edition with flying wizards, teleportation, and similar magic mention in the quote above. I never had any problem with mighty magic weapons and regions of mystical mysteries lost for ages, where strange and unusual were common occurrences.

But, for some unknown reason, in 5E I don't seem to want it anymore, while it is part of the game (as James says...) and has been for years.

So, I am not seeking answers, but if anyone has thoughts or wants to discuss it, please let me know. It would be nice if I could find a reason why...

I don’t know why, but if you want a low magic 5e, check out adventures in middle earth. Heck, you can just use the classes in an otherwise normal 5e game and you’ll have a much less magic heavy game.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I hope, we see some more revisions to the healing rules.
More of the optional rules in the PHB.

With long rests being a week, we would have a feeling that is a lot closer to ADnD.

Casters can pull out the big guns, while fighters can go on all day, as long as they have some sort of healing.

I really love the way fighters can heal woth second wind. So after a few short rest, the fighter is like new. The problem is just, that no one can play the fighter to their full potential, if you only have one combat per day. In such a setting, casters rule supreme.

For us, going from 6 hour long rest to 30 hour long rest did the trick and got the feeling right.
We also adde 1/4 of your hit dice recovered during a night's sleep.
(like in the healing surge option.)

 

[MichaelSomething]

Bring back material components! Make PCs pay to cast spells!

 

[the Jester]

Bring back material components! Make PCs pay to cast spells!

...they still exist, and a spell focus won't substitute for anything with a cost.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Bring back material components! Make PCs pay to cast spells!

And d4 hit dice! And a dependency on darts!

 

[Waller]

You make a lot of threads which basically say you want to play 2E. I'd suggest you play 2E rather than complaining about 5E constantly.

 

[Micah Sweet]

...they still exist, and a spell focus won't substitute for anything with a cost.

Honestly, money is pretty easy to come by. With real spell components, casters also have to pay in time and effort.