Dragonlance Dragonlance "Reimagined".

[GMforPowergamers]

The mutant analogy is not really accurate as gaining wizard levels is a choice. Don’t want to face the test? Don’t seek arcane power.

killing people who study magic and decide you killing people is pretty evil... is in and of itself pretty evil. No good person should really be associated with the towers. In a more modern take there would be neutral and evil towers working together and good people would be renagades.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I totally get why that turns some people off. Totally understand why. Like you, @GreyLord, I find it pretty horrific if you start drilling down. But, this is how the setting is presented. It's not meant to be debated, really. They are telling you, "In this setting, THIS is how morality works."

there are real world groups that say they are moral... that the majority of earth find immoral (no details due to rules of board)... so when you present cosmic good as aligning with at best our idea of baddish shades of grey it is WELL within the right of the audience to say "hey this is bull"

I like the orginal story... for it's time. I hate with a burning passion the idea of trying to recreate it today. The stories and setting is racists religist (is that a word) ableist, and describes 'cosmic good' as bad as evil... the tower is 1 of many things that may be was a mistake (I wont go as far as those on twitter calling some of these dog whistles) but one neither author has ever said "opps, I didn't mean to be offensive I'm sorry and will do better."

 

[GMforPowergamers]

But, again, that's the point. It's not asking you to consider these things as good. It's telling you that in the context of this setting, this is what good is. It's very much old Testament, old school religion where smite the unbeliever was considered a good thing.

and in 2022 it's okay for audiances to say "NO! That is NOT good, bad writer."

 

[GMforPowergamers]

How else can I defeat all the evil wizards who keep this nightmare status quo going? Not everyone can find and old stack of CDs and gain Real Ultimate Power.

Edit: Oh my god, I only just now got what the Discs are supposed to be. How did I never make that connection before.

Yes and I believe that is the religion of choice of the author... so the analogy was not a mistake.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

How the orders deal with renegades is explained in the 2e (and probably 1e) books.

yup... I have the 2ish book... it is upstairs in storage.

White Robe wizards will capture the renegade using as little violence as possible.

for the crime of not believing in the organization that it is hard to call anything but evil... but impossible to call good. Yeah, cause good wizards helping people but saying "I wont join your dark order, and this attack on me is proof as to why" are def the enemy of 'good' guys.

. If the renegade refuses, he is magically cast out of Krynn.

yup for the crime of helping people with magic

If the White Robes fail to capture the renegade, they will keep tabs on his location, destroying him only if the renegade proves to be a menace to the ways of magic or to innocents.

but they wont protect him from,...

Black Robe wizards will attempt to capture the renegade and try to win him over directly to the Black Robe Order. Should he refuse, the renegade is persuaded to remain renegade or killed.

because good guys working with the above guys make perfect sense...

Red Robe wizards will attempt to capture the renegade with as much force as deemed necessary, usually increasing in proportion with the renegade's resistance.

for the crime of useing magic to help people.



again you can (and I know the books and the writers have) try to SPIN it... but no real good person should be willing to work with people that are CE and kill people who don't join... and again, the pitch "Hey if you want to join you have to take a test that kills a bunch of kids every year, and you wont have your magic for it" doesn't sound much better.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

And, I REALLY hope you are kidding by comparing the Disks of Mishakal to CD's, given the date of writing.

they have a real world much older and much more religious origin

 

[Fifth Element]

Edit: Oh my god, I only just now got what the Discs are supposed to be. How did I never make that connection before.

Holy cow. A veritable mind=blown moment right here.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Then can we stop calling characters who do it morally Good?

I don’t know to whom you are referring.

 

[Fifth Element]

The mutant analogy is not really accurate as gaining wizard levels is a choice. Don’t want to face the test? Don’t seek arcane power.

That's a terrible justification. Seeking a career in film acting is a choice. Don't want to face the casting couch? Don't seek a job in acting.

No, it's still not okay just because it involves something people can choose not to do.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Have you guys considered just making your "I don't like the core of the Dragonlance setting" argument and then moving on?