D&D 5E In Search Of: The 5e Dungeon Master's Guide

[Imaro]

A shorter-than-full length but narratively complete adventure that is designed to not overwhelm potentially new players or DMs with complexity or an overly wide sandbox, which doesn't require extensive knowledge of a foreign setting, and a trimmed down ruleset that only features what is relevant, plus dice if you don't have them. I wouldn't say teaching is the goal of those products. Also, what @pointofyou said.

I fail to see how teaching isn't the goal of those products... they enable someone who has never ran a game to run a game... that's the essence of being a DM.

 

[pointofyou]

Yes... you've DM'd. You at least have the context, rules structure, an example and experience being a DM at this point as opposed to knowing nothing about it. Are you an expert? No. But you have the context to understand what is laid out in the DMG and put it together to try your hand at creating and running.

I think someone picking up the 5e DMG after running Lost Mines of Phandelver one time is as likely to be lost as someone picking it up having never run at all. The ideal would be neither being lost.

 

[Cadence]

I was going to ask something about the DnD_BasicRules (180!?!? pages for free right now) and what a supplement of "Being a Player for the First Time" and "Being a DM for the First Time" that were given away free might look like.

And then I got side-tracked by page 180.

 

[Imaro]

I think someone picking up the 5e DMG after running Lost Mines of Phandelver one time is as likely to be lost as someone picking it up having never run at all. The ideal would be neither being lost.

You really believe that after having run Lost Mines for weeks... they would be as clueless as someone who had never touched D&D... yeah we just aren't going to see eye to eye on this one.

 

[Xamnam]

I fail to see how teaching isn't the goal of those products... they enable someone who has never ran a game to run a game... that's the essence of being a DM.

Analogies are always fraught, but the difference between a cookbook and a meal kit? Sure, you can make a meal with both, but the latter is more about ease of use and making sure you aren't missing anything, as opposed to understanding why you're doing what you're doing.

 

[pointofyou]

You really believe that after having run Lost Mines for weeks... they would be as clueless as someone who had never touched D&D... yeah we just aren't going to see eye to eye on this one.

I know of people getting through Lost Mines of Phandelver in one long session. I know of people TPKing less than an hour in. I do not believe someone running it once is ready to make up their own campaign. They might be ready to run another published adventure. WotC would likely prefer they do that.

 

[Xamnam]

I was going to ask something about the DnD_BasicRules (180!?!? pages for free right now)

Granted, it doesn't include character creation, which inherently eats up page count, but it baffles me that there's not a free option closer in length to the 32 page LMoP player rule kit.

 

[Imaro]

I know of people getting through Lost Mines of Phandelver in one long session. I know of people TPKing less than an hour in. I do not believe someone running it once is ready to make up their own campaign. They might be ready to run another published adventure. WotC would likely prefer they do that.

Yes we all have anecdotal evidence that X happened... but unless you can say that's the norm how do you know it's not working as intended? Nothing is 100% and I can't argue against what you've seen but unless there's a reason to believe that the method in which 5e creates DM's is flawed... that's all it is, anecdotal.

Also: I personally think Essentials is a much better starter set for players and DM's.

EDIT: Also... running an adventure is still DM'ing. You may not like it but plenty of people do enjoy running their games that way, and not just with D&D.

 

[Aldarc]

It's almost like there should be...gasp...multiple DMGs and MMs and PHBs. Split things up into easier chunks. Maybe kinda like a basic and advanced set.

IMHO, better organization and clearer presentation of the rules could do wonders. I will be curious to see what Chris Perkins does for the new DMG.

 

[Cadence]

Looking at books to teach people statistics, there's a big difference between the 100-level non-math intro book, 200-level intro book for science or business majors who will analyze some data, the 300/500-level intro book aimed at beginning majors (who probably had some high school stats), and the reference books practicing statisticians actually reach for when doing statistics or teaching graduate courses.

As far as the intro books -- if they actually did a great job, I'm not sure why we would need instructors, or why there would be such a proliferation of videos at places such as Khan Academy.

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Assuming you don't have a person show you how it goes, are books actually a good way to introduce the masses to complex things? Or is a nice walk through interactive workbook, video, and/or game set-up better?

It feels in statistics that this later stuff is what the few publishers with deep pockets are trying to put on-line and monetize. But the reason they need to monetize them is that their big market is the people who just take that one course. Is D&D for WotC different in that their big market is people who will want to play and will buy the other books on their own? Would a nice interactive introductory tutorial essentially just be advertising?