D&D (2024) Subclasses should start at 1st level

[Bill Zebub]

You know what a lot of people really should do if they want subclasses at Level 1 but the game ends up going in a different direction?

Just create and name their character's Background as part of their subclass.

In that way you get the best of both worlds... you get to denote who your character is and what they feel they are from the very beginning of their adventuring career... and they gain mechanical benefits for having it-- a pair of skills, a tool, language, and a feat. Basically turn your Background into your very first subclass feature.

Make your Background "Acolyte of the Open Hand Termple". Or "Yoriki to the Local Samurai". Or "Student of the Illusion School". Or "Fey Chanter of the Glamour Queen". Or "Adherent of the Moon Circle".

Heck... there's probably a good DM's Guild product right there-- writing up a whole bunch of Backgrounds that are all connected to each of the subclasses in the game, with all the proper mechanical selections made to boost it.

I suspect one underlying difference in opinion is how much mechanical distinction is necessary/desireable to define a concept. I’m on the low end of that scale. A couple of flavorful but mechanically minor features, even just ribbons, and I’m happy.

 

[Yaarel]

Very Torchbearer.

Access to "mom" is also kinda Strixhaven, where the school has mentors and staff.

 

[Maxperson]

Except that it would be jarring as heck to be playing your class one way through the tutorial levels and then have it drastically change at 3rd. Also, you can’t have full casting or half-casting start at 3rd level.

Then don't do that. You don't really have much right to complain if you choose to play it drastically different for levels 1 and 2 and then switch to something jarring. That's all on you.

I would not play it different and so it would not be drastically different or jarring.

Also, why can't you have full or half casting start at 3rd level? It's simple to accomplish. All you need to do is start it at 3rd level. Done.

Seriously, though. Start it at 3rd level and every few levels add in an extra slot and the missing spell level at some point. By 9th level you will have made up the lost 2 levels of spells without there being anything jarring going on and will progress like every other full or half caster.

 

[Maxperson]

How about you pick your Class Group at level 1, your Class at level 3 & your subclass at level 5.

What do those of us who have no class do?!

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah. Level 1 is something like a 20 year old college student − or its equivalent.

22. You just got your bachelors degree and are ready to go out into the world and try to find your first real job, except no one will hire you due to lack of practical experience.

 

[Maxperson]

D&D classes represent something like combat experience. NPCs who dont have combat experience dont really gain in levels.

NPCs aren't generally built with the class system, so you can make a researcher archmage that has several "levels" of power without ever having gone into combat.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Yeah. Level 1 is something like a 20 year old college student − or its equivalent.

With the current rate of levelling, they might well still be 20 years old when they hit level 20...

 

[Charlaquin]

Then don't do that. You don't really have much right to complain if you choose to play it drastically different for levels 1 and 2 and then switch to something jarring. That's all on you.

I would not play it different and so it would not be drastically different or jarring.

I was talking about a significant mechanical change.

Also, why can't you have full or half casting start at 3rd level? It's simple to accomplish. All you need to do is start it at 3rd level. Done.

Then you’d miss the first two levels of spell progression…

Seriously, though. Start it at 3rd level and every few levels add in an extra slot and the missing spell level at some point. By 9th level you will have made up the lost 2 levels of spells without there being anything jarring going on and will progress like every other full or half caster.

That’s just not how 5e spell progression works

 

[Maxperson]

I was talking about a significant mechanical change.

That is also the fault of the player. If you don't want to be jarred by your rogue going from 0 to expert at scouting at 3rd level, pick those two proficiencies at first level and then has a smooth progression from good to expert.

The player has control over whether his PC is moving smoothly towards his subclass or whether it's a jarring change.

Then you’d miss the first two levels of spell progression…

Not if you follow my suggestion.

That’s just not how 5e spell progression works

It's EXACTLY how 5e works. 5e is an exceptions based system and specific beats general. Those specific subclasses beat out the general rules on spell progression.

 

[Yaarel]

22. You just got your bachelors degree and are ready to go out into the world and try to find your first real job, except no one will hire you due to lack of practical experience.

Heh. 20. Its more like just got your AA degree. And they will hire you!

NPCs aren't generally built with the class system, so you can make a researcher archmage that has several "levels" of power without ever having gone into combat.

Yeah, I said "NPC", but I really meant noncombatant "commoner", in contrast to PCs who have levels in a class.