Dragonlance Dragonlance "Reimagined".

[pemerton]

that's great... but if the Xmen decided to launch an asteroid at NYC to stop Trask from building sentinels in NYC would you judge storm then?

The X-Men aren't gods. They don't have the moral authority to punish a people.

Trying to read the DL story as if it has no connection to significant folk and theological traditions is absurd. It's not a work of humanist science fiction. It's a work of reactionary fantasy.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I am commenting on your claim that you wanted DL to have more variance. Did I misread you?

Yes I want Dragon Lance with a few (I think minor) tweeks. I think that DL and Krynn is different enough from FR and DS and BR and SJ that those little tweeks wont make them all the same

 

[GMforPowergamers]

That's the biggest issue with kender for me. They're essentially that CN player who is disruptive and acts like a jerk to everyone because "it's what my character would do". I've yet to have a kender player and I hope to change that.

My issue historicly with kender is that if you make a fun version based on the text, you default to obstructive problematic... you CAN adjust to not be but if you go by the written write up that is what you get.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Well, I regard it as profoundly racist to morally equate literature that condones (say) race-based slavery to literature that uses the pre-modern trope of collective punishment.

Racist... to condemn racism and genocide instead of just racism?

Also, where did race come from? I was referencing mocking the neurodivergent -- you know the point of the Gully Dwarf. I feel like the racism rider on them was just an add-on that was a clumsy way to explain their presence, like how Tinker Gnomes are primarily anti-science narrative where the racist backstory was unintentional unfortunate implications.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The X-Men aren't gods. They don't have the moral authority to punish a people.

okay, so change that to Avengers or Justice League (both have gods on them)

lets pull some out
Thor
Wonder Woman
Orion
Mr Miracle
Big Barda
Hercules
Oden
Living Tribunal
Spector
Dr Fate

replace storm with ANY of these... would you argue that a good (admittedly not the word I would use for 2 or 3 of those named depending on writer) character throwing a giant mountain at NYC is good?

Trying to read the DL story as if it has no connection to significant folk and theological traditions is absurd. It's not a work of humanist science fiction. It's a work of reactionary fantasy.

It perplexes me that you think science fiction and fantasy are so different that morality is different for them.

 

[Faolyn]

Radiant Citadel is as "modern values" as it gets in D&D.

Yup. And while I don't think that every civilization in D&D should look like it--that sort of extreme should be relatively rare--Radiant Citadel should be held up as an example of what an actually Good civilization can look like.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Also, where did race come from? I was referencing mocking the neurodivergent -- you know the point of the Gully Dwarf. I feel like the racism rider on them was just an add-on that was a clumsy way to explain their presence, like how Tinker Gnomes are primarily anti-science narrative where the racist backstory was unintentional unfortunate implications.

I don't know if they MEANT for the gully dwarf to mock neurodivergent, just like I don't know if they MENT for kender to match up with bad mouthing romoni irl... I just don't think it matters what they meant, it is and now needs to be fixed.

 

[Vaalingrade]

okay, so change that to Avengers or Justice League (both have gods on them)

lets pull some out
Thor
Wonder Woman
Orion
Mr Miracle
Big Barda
Hercules
Oden
Living Tribunal
Spector
Dr Fate

You missed the Pheonix, a space god who did a genocide to maintain her own survival after being corrupted by her compatriots and was put to death alongside her most recent host for it.

But it's not like there are any parallels...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

You missed the Pheonix, a space god who did a genocide to maintain her own survival after being corrupted by her compatriots and was put to death alongside her most recent host for it.

But it's not like there are any parallels...

to this day the "is jean responsible for the Dark Phoenix's genocide of the planet/star system" just came up this month and it happened in the 80's

 

[pemerton]

It perplexes me that you think science fiction and fantasy are so different that morality is different for them.

A film like 2001 gets all of its weight from inviting the audience to apply their actual moral sensibility.

A film like Excalibur gets all of its weight from inviting the audience to suspend their actual moral sensibility and buy into its romantic sensibility.

Some people think this makes Excalibur a bad film. Others don't. But I've never heard of anyone who thinks that you make sense of Excalibur as a film by viewing it with the same sort of sensibility as one would bring to 2001.